Kubota Super UDT

[FarmerFrank]

My dealer uses only standard UDT rather than Super UDT. Will this void the warranty on my BX2200? What the heck is the difference anyway?

Frank Dwyer

 

[gsxr1100]

As long as it meets or exceeds the proper Kubota/API spec's you are good-to-go. Dealers just want you to buy their oil when there are better oils out there at half the cost. They are not going to void warrenty! Dealers like that should be put out-of-business. They love to put fear in cutomers. I hate dealers like that. Amsoil is the best out there but people don't want to spend that kind of money. So, there are Delvac, Cummins Blue, along with others. Put it in from the start. Remember 15w-40..

Link below (cut and paste in browser)
http://www.tractorbynet.com/cgi-bin...oard=owning&Number=44710&page=&view=&sb=&vc=1

Thanks
Mike

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by BURNICKAS on 07/16/01 08:34 PM (server time).</FONT></P>

 

[treeboone]

FarmerFrank, my dealer also does not carry super UDT. From what I could learn, it is a synthetic multiviscosity hydraulic fluid. UDT is a typical single viscosity hydraulic oil. The main advantage to super UDT is in extreme cold or hot weather when using a hydrostatic transmission. Not likely that you would benefit from using it in typical use. The cost is rather high, about twice the normal UDT. Super UDT is orange in color and has a peculiar odor. Chevron has a synthetic all weather hydraulic fluid that is orange in color, and is probobly the same stuff, unless Kubota has taken up refining oil. Read the archives on this site and you will find answers for questions you havent thought of yet. Enjoy

 

[treeboone]

I want to correct my last post, UDT is not a "typical single viscosity hydraulic oil" but rather a hydraulic oil for combination transmission/hydraulic system. There is a difference, but just what I am not certain, probobly more additives.

 

[JATO_RaT]

Burnikas, I didn't want your post to confuse anyone out there. They are talking about hydraulic oil not engine oil. As far as Amsoil being the best, hmmm, maybe, but the folks at Redline Oil may disagree with you even though their oil is easily twice the price of Amsoil. Rat...

 

[gsxr1100]

I know we are talkking about hydraulic oil. I also stated oils because many dealers pull crap like that will engine oil. Amsoil still blows Redline away. It is like LE is 80% more money then Asmoil but it is not synthetic! I am paying what for regular oil!!!!!

I did not think Redline made a UDT "like" oil? They make tranny fluid but not hydraulic...

Thanks
Mike

 

[JATO_RaT]

Burnikas, really, many dealers do that? Hmmm, first of all, I would never go to the dealer for oil, second, I would probably not go to many dealers to find out if they pulled "crap like that" and third, Redline is not only pure synthetic, they have some fantastic information explaining facts about synthetic like how its made, where it is far superior to petroleum based oils. The advantage and disadvantage of detergent in the oil (yes, there is a disadvantage to detergent in the oil), why the weight/viscosity is critical in your selection for an oil etc, information I have yet to get from Amsoil, and remember, up until this point, all I have ever used is Amsoil with the exception of 1 qt. of Redline. I am not so brand blind loyal though not to check out others more thoughly. My guess is that Redline does not "blow Amsoil out of the water" or vice versa. (whatever that over used cliche means) Rat....

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Super UDT costs about 12.00 per gallon here in N. Ga. It is more of a clear color and according to the label is merely hydrotreated heavy paraffinic oil, not synthetic.. The Chevron all weather is THF is said to be synthetic but like Castrol Syntec is merely a highly treated dino oil and the entity that controls oil advertising has okayed that. So beware believing all that you read.
FYI
Greg H

 

[JATO_RaT]

I would like to point out that just because an oil uses pure synthetic compunds in its formulation does not automatically make it superior to anything that is not. When you look at the comparrisons between oil brands, particularly the ASTM D4172 wear test, inconsistencies in a products performance are huge. A well known synthetic oil does incredible when UNUSED oil is used in the ASTM D4172 wear test, but after being exposed to just the equivalent of a few hundred miles (338 miles to be exact) of blowby gases inherent in all internal combustion engines, the friction modifying additives degrade changing the wear test results substantially. Of course the same can be true of petroleum based products. Point is, synthetic in and of itself is not the tell tale way to determine the quality of an oil. Truth is, its tough to determine that unless used oil samples are taken and analyzed. When you look at synthetics, one great starting point is to find out if they use polyol esters as the main componet of their base stock. Some synthetic oil manufactuers make a fantastic UNUSED synthetic oil that has componets that are very chemically reactive when exposed to the blowby gases bring the wear characteristics well below the (both wear scar diameter and coefficient of friction ASTM D4172 tests) new UNUSED product. When comparing lubricants, keep in mind its a pretty slippery slope, its easy to fall victim to exagerrated claims. I think it was Burnikas that said as long as it has the API grading, you can use it and not worry about the warranty, that much I believe to be true, but must admit, I have never ever, ever, ever had a mechanical failure due to lubrication. I am convinced though that synthetics are an excellent alternative to conventional oil. Rat....

 

[gsxr1100]

I agree with Rat that things might be different when testing before-and-after. You talk about
ASTM D4172 which is the Four Ball Wear Test. You have to keep in mind if that particular manufacture uses the min requirements or the mean or max. Amsoil uses 40 kg weight at 75°C and 1200 rpm for duration of 1 hour. The result is measured in mm (Scar). Their Series 3000 is measured at must high loads, longer period and higher RPM but results in lower Scar; hence, better oil. This (ASTM D4172) is an important test but you have to look at the global picture, not local. Look at the Noack Volatility, Shear, Kinematic Viscosity, Pour point, TBN, etc. These all together make a good oil. One thing affects another. For example low TBN means more blow bye and probably more fuel and/or water in oil. This lower TBN means probably high NOX or soot lever, maybe higher Cr or Al.

I have used a 100% synthetic oils in my cars (mustang lx), motorcycle (GSXR-1100 pushing well over 150 HP) and my Powerstroke diesel and the oil test results come back wonderful. I care about the API but care a great deal more about what happens when that oil is running in the engine. My toys and other people are not getting cheaper so you have to keep an eye on your investments. I would never put $0.99 oil in a $33,000+ truck or a $12,000+ tractor. Or even a $375 pressure washer. You get what you pay for…..


I have never had an engine crap due to oil but I have had some items fail due to high metal rates in oil. This was due to high turbo temps on motorcycle. The turbo got killed because engine oil (cheap dino oil) coked the turbo bearings! Now that I have a good 100% synthetic oil, no failures in over 4 years. Boy, it does get hot! Gotta love Mr. Turbo!!


Thanks
Mike

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Just curious as to the identity of the well known synthetic that seems to have trouble after about 338 miles.
Thanks
Greg H

 

[JATO_RaT]

Greg, its not so much trouble as it was a considerable change (for the worse) in the coefficient of friction. With that said, the result still surpassed any petroleum based or non synthetic product. As far as the brand names go, I would rather not get into that highly flammable arena, its just to much for most folks. Rat...

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Rat, It is bad form to suggest such info and then not produce . One should not tease us with info and then for some reason choose not to bring facts to the table that could help some of us. Who knows which of us are using that particular oil. It sounds as though Mobil oil might be the subject of your claims, I use it but if it is an underperformer, I sure want to know and would not be angry over facts that help me. But, thanks anyway
Greg H

 

[JATO_RaT]

Greg, as much as I would like to, I think that with a small amount of investigating, you can get the info. The web has made things so easy. No, Mobil was never even mentioned in this article. Many folks here at TBN use Mobil sysnthetic and find it great. I have yet to read an article that suggests any petroleum based oil exceeds any synthetic oil in the oils ability to lubricate at temperature extremes, pourability at freezing temps, volatility, wear etc. I would suggest that if the Mobil oil your using is serving you well, thats all that really matters. We can point out some of the relatively minor benefits Brand A has over Brand B but at some point, were picking fly poop out of the pepper. Rat....

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Rat,
I agree we sometimes get a little too picky. For me the Delvac 1 seems to work fine although mighty expensive, I hope it is really worth the price.
Happy Tractoring
Greg H

 

[Knight9]

Not to flog a dead horse here.....but I wanted to let people know what I encountered with the Super UDT/UDT issue. I went to purchase the Super UDT from my dealer. They said they had never heard of Super UDT. They looked online at Kubota (I presume Kubota Canada) and showed me that there was NO reference to Super UDT. There was only a reference to Premium UDT. In fact that is what the plastic bucket also says "Kubota Premium UDT".

Not sure if the "Premium" stuff is what we have been referring to as UDT or if it is "Super" just renamed. In any event the dealer indicated to me that this is the ONLY stuff they can get from Kubota so I don't have to worry about anything.

Kevin

 

[Anderson]

my dealer just called, and said my super udt is in. when I went in 3 months ago, they said the same thing. then I referred them to my tractors manual, which calls for super udt and really confused them.

The service managers confusion was ammusing in that he goes to annual kubota service training and had never heard of it. he said they put togethor hundreds of my tractor, and used the standard udt in all of them.

they looked in the standard parts list, and found nothing. then looked in another parts list (the cover was quite dusty), and found a PN and ordered it.

I'm going to try to pick it up, and change the fluid this weekend.