Kubota vs Massey advice

[BleepinSheep]

I'm working through almost the same exact question right now, being between almost identical machines (M6040 vs M4707).

I got to test drive the Massey and an M9540 on the same day; the M9540 sold so I'm looking at an M6040 which I believe is very similar in layout/cab.

My thoughts on the two machines:

The Massey felt far more refined than the Kubota, with levers made for human hands instead of the little sticks in the Kubota. Everything on the Massey was far more substantial, especially looking at the rear axle & 3-point assembly - the Massey was just massive in comparison. Brand new beautiful Trelleborg radials on the Massey, a wider stance, few inches longer wheelbase, and a big weight difference. The 6-speed in the Massey with declutch thumb button felt far ahead of the anemic 4-speed in the Kubota. I also thought the loader felt nicer to operate.

The Kubota had an incredible turning radius by using bevel gears in the front axle. Kind of a cool application, but don't bevel gears not hold up to shock loads well?

The Massey had better design philosophy throughout the tractor and is a more highly engineered machine. The Kubota felt directly related to a T-100 series Toyota truck; barebones design, lack of creature comforts, light enough that it's durable simply because it doesn't have enough traction to hurt itself. The Massey felt like an over-complicated machine that needed to pay for itself; lots of sensors, two separate hydraulic pumps (one for internal operation, one for loader/SCV's). On the Kubota most things are mechanical: Mechanical 4wd, mechanical locker that only functions as long as you hold your foot on the lever. On the Massey most things are electrical: push-button 4wd, push-botton rear locker that engages 4wd for you, thumb-button to declutch for shifting was super nice, dial-adjusted clutch engagement, electronic PTO control, rear fender mounted 3-point controls.

The Massey truly is a full one or two classes larger of machine than the Kubota, and will be a far more stable machine. It also worries me as a machine with so much complexity, electronics and sensors. On a truck that stuff is fine because it's made in large volume which leads to refined parts and low replacement prices, but that's not true on tractors. The Kubota seems like a dream for anyone wanting an almost fully-mechanical machine. Mechanical injection pump and throttle, PTO, 4wd system, etc. The Kubota is flat out simpler.


Not to detract from the original poster's question, but if anyone cares to chip in on my decision I'm all ears! I'm between these two machines for light farm use on 10 acres of flatland:
- Kubota M6040, 2,200 hours. Has cab, LA1153 loader. Included box scraper & rear blade. Front tires near full tread but weather cracked, rear tires 50%. The machine looks *immaculate*. ($33k)
- Massey 4707, 1,400 hours. Open station, 931x loader. No attachments. Brand new Trelleborg tires. The machine had its original transmission case cracked and replaced under warranty; only about 50 hours on new transmission. ($28k)

 

[Hay Dude]

I'm working through almost the same exact question right now, being between almost identical machines (M6040 vs M4707).

I got to test drive the Massey and an M9540 on the same day; the M9540 sold so I'm looking at an M6040 which I believe is very similar in layout/cab.

My thoughts on the two machines:

The Massey felt far more refined than the Kubota, with levers made for human hands instead of the little sticks in the Kubota. Everything on the Massey was far more substantial, especially looking at the rear axle & 3-point assembly - the Massey was just massive in comparison. Brand new beautiful Trelleborg radials on the Massey, a wider stance, few inches longer wheelbase, and a big weight difference. The 6-speed in the Massey with declutch thumb button felt far ahead of the anemic 4-speed in the Kubota. I also thought the loader felt nicer to operate.

I work for a very wealthy estate owner that has a grounds keeping crew with a 6060 and it has been problematic. New engine in under 200 hours (replaced under warranty). It overheated, blew head gasket, warped head, and coolant got in oil. After that was fixed and some more hours were put on it, it looks tired and banged up from general mowing use.
I think what you’ll find is the Massey will be bigger everywhere. It’ll have heavier castings and axles. Very handy for a long life.

The Kubota had an incredible turning radius by using bevel gears in the front axle. Kind of a cool application, but don't bevel gears not hold up to shock loads well?

They Kubotas turn tighter, but the seals and bearings should be in stock on your shelf. If you do a lot of loader work, you are all but guaranteed to see oil dripping from them every 1000 hours or so.

The Massey had better design philosophy throughout the tractor and is a more highly engineered machine. The Kubota felt directly related to a T-100 series Toyota truck; barebones design, lack of creature comforts, light enough that it's durable simply because it doesn't have enough traction to hurt itself. The Massey felt like an over-complicated machine that needed to pay for itself; lots of sensors, two separate hydraulic pumps (one for internal operation, one for loader/SCV's). On the Kubota most things are mechanical: Mechanical 4wd, mechanical locker that only functions as long as you hold your foot on the lever. On the Massey most things are electrical: push-button 4wd, push-botton rear locker that engages 4wd for you, thumb-button to declutch for shifting was super nice, dial-adjusted clutch engagement, electronic PTO control, rear fender mounted 3-point controls.

The Massey truly is a full one or two classes larger of machine than the Kubota, and will be a far more stable machine. It also worries me as a machine with so much complexity, electronics and sensors. On a truck that stuff is fine because it's made in large volume which leads to refined parts and low replacement prices, but that's not true on tractors. The Kubota seems like a dream for anyone wanting an almost fully-mechanical machine. Mechanical injection pump and throttle, PTO, 4wd system, etc. The Kubota is flat out simpler.

I’ve replaced some sensors on my Massey and my Challenger. The ones that seem to need replacing the most are the transmission speed sensors for the CVT. Once they get out of range, they have to be replaced.I think they are $125 and are about a 20 minute job.

Not to detract from the original poster's question, but if anyone cares to chip in on my decision I'm all ears! I'm between these two machines for light farm use on 10 acres of flatland:
- Kubota M6040, 2,200 hours. Has cab, LA1153 loader. Included box scraper & rear blade. Front tires near full tread but weather cracked, rear tires 50%. The machine looks *immaculate*. ($33k)
- Massey 4707, 1,400 hours. Open station, 931x loader. No attachments. Brand new Trelleborg tires. The machine had its original transmission case cracked and replaced under warranty; only about 50 hours on new transmission. ($28k)

Lower hours and nice new Trelleborgs on a tractor designed by AG minded engineers sound like an easy decision to me, but the cab sure is nice. I’d look for a different Massey with a cab if you need it.

I run Trelleborgs on mine, too

 

[HJ75]

I got to test drive the Massey and an M9540 on the same day; the M9540 sold so I'm looking at an M6040 which I believe is very similar in layout/cab.

The M6040/7040 are a smaller frame than the M8540/M9540. I will say, just eyeballing the rear ends between the M9540 and the MF4709, they look a similar size. However, the extra weight on the Massey must come from somewhere.

The 6-speed in the Massey with declutch thumb button felt far ahead of the anemic 4-speed in the Kubota.

The M85/9540 has a 6 speed main shift, dual range too, but no clutch button I think.

On the Massey most things are electrical: push-button 4wd, push-botton rear locker that engages 4wd for you, thumb-button to declutch for shifting was super nice, dial-adjusted clutch engagement, electronic PTO control, rear fender mounted 3-point controls.

That would bother me more on an open-station than a cab, with dust/moisture getting into the switchgear.

I can see the appeal of a simpler, more mechanical tractor for long-term ownership which is why I am considering the Kubotas myself. All the electronics are fine with a warranty but after that I would be pretty limited on what I could diagnose/fix myself.

The machine had its original transmission case cracked and replaced under warranty

I wonder what caused that?

Anyway, good luck with your decision!

 

[BleepinSheep]

I work for a very wealthy estate owner that has a grounds keeping crew with a 6060 and it has been problematic. New engine in under 200 hours (replaced under warranty). It overheated, blew head gasket, warped head, and coolant got in oil. After that was fixed and some more hours were put on it, it looks tired and banged up from general mowing use.
I think what you’ll find is the Massey will be bigger everywhere. It’ll have heavier castings and axles. Very handy for a long life.



They Kubotas turn tighter, but the seals and bearings should be in stock on your shelf. If you do a lot of loader work, you are all but guaranteed to see oil dripping from them every 1000 hours or so.





I’ve replaced some sensors on my Massey and my Challenger. The ones that seem to need replacing the most are the transmission speed sensors for the CVT. Once they get out of range, they have to be replaced.I think they are $125 and are about a 20 minute job.


Lower hours and nice new Trelleborgs on a tractor designed by AG minded engineers sound like an easy decision to me, but the cab sure is nice. I’d look for a different Massey with a cab if you need it.

I run Trelleborgs on mine, too

View attachment 3941855

That’s great info, thanks! The Massey is more machine. If it wasn’t $5k more for a cab and a big box blade + rear blade on the Kubota I wouldn’t be so tempted. I find Kubotas very underwhelming, anything M60 series and below is very barebones and quite expensive. They do seem really handy for general use, which is what I’m doing.

I don’t hay, til, or do any other real heavy ground engagement work, but we will be doing some landscape/driveway work and garden building. I do plan to use the loader a lot, with the heaviest load regularly being a water filled 275gal IBC tote. I might not get that full to the top with either machine but being able to move that around the property to water animals/trees where we don’t have piping will be helpful. We can rent a 15’ batwing mower from the town that takes 55PTO HP to cut our pasture once a year if needed. It’s typically 0-20F in the winter but we get very little snow here so a cab would be highly appreciated but not mandatory as I don’t think I’ll plow our 1/2-mile driveway often.

The M6040/7040 are a smaller frame than the M8540/M9540. I will say, just eyeballing the rear ends between the M9540 and the MF4709, they look a similar size. However, the extra weight on the Massey must come from somewhere.




The M85/9540 has a 6 speed main shift, dual range too, but no clutch button I think.



That would bother me more on an open-station than a cab, with dust/moisture getting into the switchgear.

I can see the appeal of a simpler, more mechanical tractor for long-term ownership which is why I am considering the Kubotas myself. All the electronics are fine with a warranty but after that I would be pretty limited on what I could diagnose/fix myself.



I wonder what caused that?

Anyway, good luck with your decision!

I didn’t realize the M6040 and M9540 were different frames, that makes sense. I thought they had a different rear axle casting because of the difference in lift capacity.

I wonder if our Mxx40 series is different from yours? Kubota stopped selling the Mxx40 in the US when the 2013 emissions models came out, and it was the Mxx60 that replaced them here. For certain the M9540 I test drove had a 4-speed trans with a Hi/Low gearbox. It had a wide spread between gears. I will say that the M9540 I drove was absolutely beat to death - blowing smoke out of the engine breaker, worn out hydraulic pump, broken parts - but the transmission could have passed for new.

I remember coming from test driving the M4707 to driving the M9540. Without question the M4707 dwarfed the M9540. It made the 3-point linkage, cylinders, hardware, castings, everything look tiny on the Kubota. It left an impression.

I can’t say how ride quality compared because they were both driven on pretty smooth ground.

 

[sd455dan]

Found actual weights of my M7040SU. I would bet that M9540 weighs a lot more than the book says.

Operator's manual tractor weight:

4608lb

Actual tractor with rear cast centers & fluid + loader mounts (no boom or bucket) :

7300lb

Actual tractor with rear cast centers & fluid + loader & bucket

8860lb


I have a lot of wet land, Kubota, at least for the CDN market, puts wide R1W metric radials on all four corners here. I find the tractor rarely sinks in, I've had implements/wagons drop to the axles and the tractor is still on top.

As above on Bleepinsheeps statement :

"I remember coming from test driving the M4707 to driving the M9540. Without question the M4707 dwarfed the M9540. It made the 3-point linkage, cylinders, hardware, castings, everything look tiny on the Kubota.
It left an impression."


The cylinder sizes, Something I have noticed with Kubota is their use of small cylinders and rods on their FELs.



Even my 55 HP Rhino with Koyker FEL has 1.5" rods and 2.5 ID bore cylinders,

Those appear to be larger than the LA 1353 cylinders,
60MM /2.36 " and 35 MM/1.378"??? are these really on a 95 HP Kubota tractor?

My guess is in the comparable size Massey, NH, or Challenger, to the Kubota the FEL cylinders will be larger, heavier built, and likely won't need to be cranked all the way up to 3000 PSI to achieve their lift specs.
Sure Enough. That is a Huge difference 2.8 " bore cylinders.

 

[Hay Dude]

As above on Bleepinsheeps statement :

"I remember coming from test driving the M4707 to driving the M9540. Without question the M4707 dwarfed the M9540. It made the 3-point linkage, cylinders, hardware, castings, everything look tiny on the Kubota.
It left an impression."


The cylinder sizes, Something I have noticed with Kubota is their use of small cylinders and rods on their FELs.



Even my 55 HP Rhino with Koyker FEL has 1.5" rods and 2.5 ID bore cylinders,

Those appear to be larger than the LA 1353 cylinders,
60MM /2.36 " and 35 MM/1.378"??? are these really on a 95 HP Kubota tractor?

My guess is in the comparable size Massey, NH, or Challenger, to the Kubota the FEL cylinders will be larger, heavier built, and likely won't need to be cranked all the way up to 3000 PSI to achieve their lift specs.
Sure Enough. That is a Huge difference 2.8 " bore cylinders.View attachment 3969981

The loader on my 130HP Challenger (Massey) dwarfed the LA2253 loader on my 135HP Kubota.

 

[Hay Dude]

The M6040/7040 are a smaller frame than the M8540/M9540. I will say, just eyeballing the rear ends between the M9540 and the MF4709, they look a similar size. However, the extra weight on the Massey must come from somewhere.

Like I said before, Massey used thicker cast iron housings where Kubota uses smaller or aluminum housings.

The M85/9540 has a 6 speed main shift, dual range too, but no clutch button I think.



That would bother me more on an open-station than a cab, with dust/moisture getting into the switchgear.

Why? Farm tractors have been built for 100 years with outside rated electrical systems. Cab tractors are likely to suffer from problems where mice chew wires that open station tractors are less likely to have.

I can see the appeal of a simpler, more mechanical tractor for long-term ownership which is why I am considering the Kubotas myself. All the electronics are fine with a warranty but after that I would be pretty limited on what I could diagnose/fix myself.



I wonder what caused that?

Anyway, good luck with your decision!

Tell you what- the “simpler” (2) Kubotas I had caused me more problems than the “more complicated” AGCO branded tractors.
I’d rather replace a sensor on an AGCO than a PTO or an ECM on a Kubota with 1/2 the hours.

 

[masseyrider]

One of the mechanics who works at the local Agco dealership used to work at a Kubota store.
He will tell you he left Kubota because he couldn't stand working on them.
Needlessly difficult. And more expensive parts.