L4610HST Slowly bleeding to death.

[patrickg]

Warning the following post may contain graphic details not suitable for some readers.

I originally thought my new L4610 was house broken as there were no major accidents on the living room floor with the one exception, air conditioner condensate dripping but its only distilled water and it evaporates quickly and I can't back in far enough to get it on the carpeting anyway. For those comming in late: Living in P/U camper in a shop bld. 14x14 roll up doors for picture windows, partially carpeted during winter (I'm a bare foot kinda guy) just left it there in anticipation of moving into a house real soon now (been thinking that for 6 months). Anyway my wife notices a growing puddle under the right rear axle housing and says, "it isn't evaporating, better check it out."

Poor beast is bleeding hydraulic fluid. Not by the quart or even pint, the sight glass still reads good enough but it is a messy situation and if it suddenly got worse could strand me or injure the moving parts. I call my FNKD (Friendly Neighborhood Kubota Dealer) and find out that there has been a lot of that happening lately.
(J U S T G R E A T Misery loves company.)
Seems there may be a variability in O-ring quality/suppliers for the O-rings used to connect the hydraulic hoses to the trippple remote valve installation (located above rt rear axle) for the TNT kit and third remote (hydraulic raise and lower scarifiers on box blade and raise and lower 3ph cement mixer).

As it recently came back from its 50 hr checkup I asked if there were any hydraulic drains on the rt rear axle and there are B U T it was tight and dry. back to the O-ring narrative... "You can tighten them up and get a better seal but if you go too far it will tear the O-ring and leak a lot worse." I ask how to proceed with tightening. "Well just tighten it just a bit." How much an eighth of a turn, a half turn? "Yup." Which? "Well as you tighten it, it will get tighter and then suddenly it will get looser, that's when the O-ring broke." Ok, lets see if I got this. You know when you went too far because it suddenly gets loose and will leak badly? "Yup." How do you know when to stop
B E F O R E the O-ring dies? "Well just tighten it just a bit." (Sounded familiar somehow.) Isn't this a warranty issue? "Sure is" "I can come out and try to fix it or you can bring it in." (50 mile RT) Gotta load it on trailer in high 90 degree heat with high humidity (worst week of te year, so far)

Is it OK to get pretty aggressive with a pressure washer under there to clean it up so I can determine the source of the leak? "OK, but don't use too much pressure." How much is too much? "Don't use 8000lbs." How about 1800? Should be OK. If you clean it up I can put some fluorescent die in the fluid and find the leak with a black light."

I would rather fix it and get on with tractorin' but give myself (history of overtightening things since before starting first grade) no better than a 50-50 chance (I should have gone into destructive testing, I'm a natural.).

Any suggestions? Are there some super O-rings, like nitrile rubber on steroids, soaked in mink oil? It couldn't cost more that a few bucks (he said hopefully) to get the best stuff available, whatever that is. Probably no longer available because the manufacturing waste products threaten the existance of a rare ear mite that infests the California Snail Darter during periods of high electric costs.

OK, the kids can come back into the room now.

Patrick

 

[Bird]

Sounds to me like a perfectly normal situation, Patrick./w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

Bird

 

[RichS]

Isn't that the truth. Run the system hard, big red in the thermometer and you seem to come into the garage on your last leg. Hyd. Fluid seems to do that. See it on the FEL a lot. Seems like a huge leak when is it only a few drops and dirt has attached itself. Looks like hell but check the fluid level and nothing. So you say. Ok. I will work it hard again tomorrow and check. Got to be some big leak. nope just your over imaginative self expecting problems! Not to say there are not problems. But sometimes with Hyd. Fluid is looks alot worse than it is.

Rich S.

 

[patrickg]

Bird, Normal? the leak, their response, or both?

Patrick

 

[Bird]

Both, Patrick. Really, it's not surprising. I'm no mechanic, but if it were me, I'd tighten it about an eighth of a turn, clean it off, run it, and see if it still leaks. If so, I'd do it again, and if it starts to leak more instead of less, take it apart and go get new o-rings. I've been lucky so far with my tractors, but I've had lots of experience with leaking o-rings in air tools. I've probably got a hundred o-rings on hand; usually have everything except the size I need right now./w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif

Incidentally, I had a similar scare to yours a week or so ago. Walked into the shop and saw that puddle under the tractor and knew right off it wasn't water. Got my creeper and got under there to see, and sure was relieved to find that I'd only overfilled the fuel tank the night before when I quit - diesel instead of oil./w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Bird

 

[RichS]

Patrick,
Does the puddle grow without moving/operating the tractor? I would at least wash it down with a hose to see if you can see where it is coming from. You state that it wasn't happening before the 50 hr. I would concentrate there. What changed. Alternatively. has the weather changed since you had the 50 hr done? Heat will not only internally but externally will allow some seappage {spelling}. And hyd. fluid leaks always seem to look HUGE!! {well at least to me. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif}
As far as agressiveness with the pressure washer. Don't know. I try to stay away from the tractor with the pressure washer as I always ... ALWAYS seem to hit the radiator! DARN. Hit my pickups two weekends ago and took couple of hours to straighten the fins!


Rich S.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

You know how some guys spit for no reason? Well, tractors are like that, my Kubota went about 30 hours without a spec, now some specs or a little worse. With hydraulic fluid being so thin it spreads out on the pavement. BX is still not leaking. You'd think this could be resolved, but the more hydraulic attachments you put on the worse it seems to get. Think of it has a continuing oil change.

What's weird is sometimes the leaks are not even findable when you are using the tractor under load, you'd think they'd show up easily. You just about have to really clean it and then sprinkle baby powder or something on it to find where they REALLY start. I don't quite understand how you can look under the tractor and not find ANYTHING, then park it and it looks like a quart leaked out overnight!

I was hoping to get a few years use before it came like my Ford with it's mulitiple litter boxes under it.

Del

 

[rbargeron]

I have to say that there must be a lot of very young guys here. Until the rising sun brands hit US shores, tractors were synonymous with "superfund site". You could tell where they were normally parked by the oil-soaked earth on that acre.

Then for several years Kubota set an example of ZERO leakage - sometimes even for tractors with FEL, extra remotes and backhoe with 1000-2000 hours. Got everybody spoiled. Now there is unrest in Gotham over a tablespoon of oil getting out of a 12 or 16 gallon system. Sacre Bleu !!

 

[Anonymous Poster]

I've seen some of those tractors you're talking about, some have been retrofitted with belly pans/storage tanks underneath that when half full pump back up into the fluid tank! /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif del

 

[patrickg]

Bird, If it were not for the following conditions 1. it is waranty work and they will come out and fix it Monday PM 2. I can use the tractor and monitor the sight glass as realistically speaking I lose only a few oz per hour working hard (I think) and maybe 5-8 table spoons overnight parked 3. It ain't easy with B I G hands (the tech said its tough for him to get in there and I know the guy, he's quite a bit smaller than I am 4.it is H O T 5. UPS delivered some toys (FRS base stations, remote IR sensors with radio transmitters to announce arrivals at three of the gates, couple sets of 12 volt air horns for outside supplement to shops inside siren on the alarm system, and other toys.

Did I mention that it is hot? Mostly overcast for first time in weeks but still darned hot and humidity is up a mite. 20% chance of rain but with the underhouse plumbing done, LET IT RAIN.

Power was off for an hour or so around 0930. As we have electricty from two different companies I (big dummy) called the wrong co. About the time the guy arrived and pointed that out the power went back on. Well, it is complicated!

Patrick

 

[Bird]

I understand, Patrick. Anytime someone else will do the work and it doesn't cost me anything, that's the way I go./w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif And especially in this heat./w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif

Bird

 

[patrickg]

Rich, I had in mind about what you suggested but was overcome by a brief random heavy duty gust of lazy and other extenuating corcumstances. (See post to Bird). I had the trippple valve kit with TnT installed when I bought this beast. One goes to extra aux outlets in back for hydraulic scarifiers, cement mixer, etc. The three valves are mounted as one and in a hard to get to position. One of the hoses to the rear aux quick connects had to be replaced with one bent more sharply for clearance as it hit the cab while trying to plug something in and it couldn't be used without partial dissasembly and a helper. Not convenient. I basically don't like to accept coincidence as the reason for much of anything. I figure the odds are in favor of that changed hose going to that valve as being the culprit as that is the only thing on that trippple valve assy that was changed at the 50 hr.

One day I am going to have to pour a set of ramps with safety curbs to drive the tractor onto for easy access to the underside. Anybody out there done this, seen this, know of any reason it souldn't be done? Speak now or forever hold your peace. I might come up with something that would work safely and conveniently for other vehicles as well. Don't want a "Grease pit", would likely fill with water, dirt, debris, distracted people, whatever.

Patrick

 

[patrickg]

Del, Catch basins to recycle the fluids. I shouda thought of that. There was a guy in the dorm down the street from me in early college days who drove something really old (babbited bearings and like that). It was old worn and looked like something out of a black and white movie bootlegger chase scene. Anyway it started and ran reliably, smoked reliably A N D he carried a bucket under it (good road clearance in those vintages) to catch his leaking engine oil (motor oil if you prefer). Ever so often he would pour it back into the engine. I think the crankshaft rear main seal was a little less than perfect. Worked for him! I suppose he could have automated it with a pump and float switch.

Patrick