LA504 roll back angle improvement?

[CDN Farm Boy]

One of the very few things I'm not happy about with my B3300SU and 504 loader is the crappy roll back angle. I either have to accept excessive spillage to drive with the bucket at a proper height or drive with the bucket raised 4 or 5' to level it out and stop slillage. I also have Kubota's pin-on QA.

Any suggestions how to improve this without sacrificing any lift capacity?

 

[LD1]

How are your fan skills?

Modifying pin positions or buying a new bucket are about the only way.

 

[CDN Farm Boy]

Fan skills?

 

[LD1]

Autocorrect..... Fab skills

 

[CDN Farm Boy]

That makes more sense lol. Well above average.

I'm considering either reworking the lower part of the loader frame to allow for a linkage on the bucket curl or possibly just build a complete new loader frame and reuse the stock hydraulics. If I built a complete new frame, I'd likely make it self-leveling also.

Perhaps I should have posted in the Customizing section but thought I'd try here in case someone has done something similar with the same loader

 

[rustyshakelford]

I'm not very familiar with your loader but can you grind off the upper tabs and move the cylinder backs few inches?

Brett

 

[kcender]

I feel the same way about the loader on my B2620.I noticed the lack of rollback immediately after coming from a Grand L with the bucket linkage.I have thought about fabbing up bucket linkage but never did.If I buy another tractor with a loader I will make sure it has the bucket linkage.

 

[CDN Farm Boy]

I'm not very familiar with your loader but can you grind off the upper tabs and move the cylinder backs few inches?

Brett

The way it is when the cyl is fully retracted, the bucket end is against the loader frame. I'd have to move the lower pivot out but that will compromise my lift

 

[LD1]

Keep this in mind whatever you do:

With the current pin spacing between the loader frame and cylinder on the bucket, and your given cylinder stroke....you only have a given range of travel.

So whatever yo do to gain rollback, you will loose that in dump angle. Which may become an issue near full height loading a truck or something.

To get more range of travel with the given stroke length, you will loose rollback force.

 

[CDN Farm Boy]

Got ya on the dump angle, that's why I was considering the linkage.

Ad far as the rollback force goes, that would keeping the bucket pivot to bucket cyl mount dimension the same right?

Although I really hate the curved boom and how far it sticks the bucket out front of the NH and Case loaders, I'm pondering finding one of them with the same capacities as mine and copying the linkage geometry....assuming I like the dump and rollback angles of it

 

[LD1]

Keep this simple thing in mine:

In terms of work and power, nothing is free.

You have a given bore and stroke cylinder that yields a given range of travel.

No matter what you do, if you increase the range of travel and keep the cylinder size the same, you will loose force.

IF you increase range of travel by 10%, you will loose 10% force. Just the way it is.

Now I for one do not like the linkages on these smaller loaders. The design now is simple. By going to linkages, you are doubling the number of pivots.

BTW, what is your rollback angle now with the loader sitting on the ground?

 

[CDN Farm Boy]

BTW, what is your rollback angle now with the loader sitting on the ground?

According to my manual I've got 23° rollback and 37° dump measured off horizontal

 

[LD1]

I assume the rollback is at ground line, and the dump is at max height?

If so, and you have plans to do much dumping near max height, I wouldn't want any less than you have now.

 

[CDN Farm Boy]

I assume the rollback is at ground line, and the dump is at max height?

Yes and yes.

I'm looking to gain far more than I'm willing to sacrifice off the 37° dump.

I see lots of Case and JD in the 100hp range that have enough rollback at just above ground that the cutting edge and top edge are nearly level. Need to get a closer look at one of them so I can measure the geometry.

On the up side, last night I was at a buddy's place and he recently picked up a sweet little B7200 that needs a loader. I'm going to try to convince him to let me build him one as prototype for mine

 

[LD1]

So it seems you are after more range of travel. And the only way to do that with existing cylinders is to give up power.

If you cannot accept a loss of power. Bigger cylinders are in order.

 

[CDN Farm Boy]

I guess you are right, it's more range of travel that I'm after. If I were to add a linkage setup with the existing cylinders, would it not be possible to keep the same power with more range? Or even gain a bit of power? With the proper geometry of course

 

[tk tom]

What about the scissor looking links I've seen on some loaders? Does that help angle or curling power? Not sure what that's called, I'll try to find a pic.

 

[tk tom]

Like this

 

[s219]

You can't ever get both things at the same time, linkage or not. Pick one or the other.

 

[CDN Farm Boy]

What about the scissor looking links I've seen on some loaders? Does that help angle or curling power? Not sure what that's called, I'll try to find a pic.

Yup, that's exactly what the linkage is. When set up properly more range of motion is available. The same idea is used on backhoe and excavator buckets to obtain more than 180° of rotation.