Land Pride Aerator

[Anonymous Poster]

Big Guy here is the info off their website:

The new "Turfco Direct" phone number is (800) 679-8201. Fax requests and orders can be sent to (763) 785-0556, or mailed to Turfco Manufacturing, Inc., 1655 101ST Ave. N.E., Minneapolis, MN 55449-4420. Or, e-mail to: directsales@turfco.com

 

[kyoders]

Greg,

First, you have to look at why the "pro" is charging so much: 1) Overhead, 2) Taxes, 3) Equipment costs, 4) Licensing/training costs. There are usually reasons for the "pros" to charge what they do. Of course, sometimes the reason is simply that they don't have enough competition to keep pricing in line, although I would think in landscaping, that isn't often the case.

When an "amateur" does the job, most of the above isn't a consideration. Sometimes he/she is doing it to help defray the cost of the equipment, and the time spent is taken out of their "leisure" time. Usually a big reason they do it is because they enjoy the work (up to a point).

When I look at doing something myself, I try to compare what it would cost to have a "pro" do it vs. doing it myself, taking into account equipment purchases I would have to make and the fact that it will likely take me a lot longer to do it (not to mention specialized skills that I may not be able to develop myself). I then weigh the cost of the "pro" vs. my time and investment, then choose the "best" route for me. To me, it's not a question of morality.

If I choose to do it myself, and my conscience bothers me, I can always donate money to the "pros"

Kevin

 

[bigpete]

It's not a morality issue, but something more along the lines of courtesy or ethics. But only if I know an honest, small businessman is vying for the same revenue. That is, if I knew someone was bidding for business and, especially if they were a "little" guy, I wouldn't try to undercut him.

I don't do it for the money, but as Kevin mentioned, I've paid for my implements and helped out some people who couldn't/wouldn't pay a big commercial landscaping company an exorbitant fee for a a non-repeat service. The commercial guys have all that overhead--insurance, training, benefits, taxes, etc. that make up their costs. Heck, it's almost impossible to make it in that business unless you have real "scale," meaning dozens of contracts. Once they have those contracts, they're typically not bothered by the little jobs we do for our neighbors.

I balance any ethical dilema by asking the neighbors if they have looked at pro services, and most have. Most have also purchased big ZTRs for the mowing, and I offer to help with the broadcasting, aerating, spraying etc. I don't ask for money and if they give me a couple hundred dollars or pay for my share of fertilizer, etc. I'll still sleep well at night.

There are also a couple gray areas that everyone should be careful about. First, legally speaking, commercial broadcasting of chemicals is probably illegal without an Applicators permit, depending on your state's laws. Second, if you damage property or hurt/kill somebody while working on a second-hand friends property, you may be up Lawyer Creek without a paddle. Third, if you are remunerated for your work, you legally have to claim the income. I'm sure the IRS and State 'Revenuers' have bigger fish to fry, but be careful how big you get. If you get big enough to be noticed by the commercial operator, don't think for a minute that they wouldn't report you to your State's Division of Revenue. Fourth, it's kind of a pain when neighbors and friends of neighbors begin to rely on you a bit too much and you can't find any golf, fishin', or porch sittin' time on weekends.

I'll stick with the onesy-twosey, good samaritan work and hopefully you'll catch me on my porch swing taking a nap or sipping a frosty one instead of finding me in a cloud if dust a mile down the road saving Joe Acquaintance a few hundred dollars. /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

 

[Gfranklin]

<font color=blue>But only if I know an honest, small businessman is vying for the same revenue. </font color=blue>

We're in sync! Just a guy doing exactly the same thing you are. No bootleg on the side business being run here. Fortunately, my day job is good.

Some very good points, especially on legalities. My assistance is always preceded either by a direct request from the neighbor or from my witnessing them doing something the "hard way" and offering my help-Usually for free, rarely for "gas"money. I am getting better at saying no, especially with the waterline locating device (backhoe). It's amazing how many people know hou drive a truck when it's time to move and know you own a tractor when they need yard work done!!!

Greg

 

[kyoders]

Pete,

Excellent point about the legalities. I only addressed doing it for myself, but it is especially true if doing it for somebody else. You might be very surprised to find your very good neighbor might not be as easy going if you break something in the process. Or you may damage your equipment, and then where are you? Being neighborly is one thing, but if you try to make a business of it, no matter how small, your costs will likely put you in the same ballpark as the "pros".

If the neighbor is appreciative, and you don't feel taken advantage of, then by all means, enjoy the seat time with a clear conscience.

Kevin

 

[TresCrows]

I am hopeing this will not start a fight. I am not sure why a small business or entrepenuer should feel they have ownership of a particular revenue stream. It is not theirs. The money in my pocket belongs to me and if I choose to give it to an amateur it is my buisness and vice versa. The "union think" attitude that amateurs are stealing money from their poor babies neglects the facts the amateurs may have even poorer babies. I beleive in free enterprise and competition. If I was to ever be so misguided as to do this work for a living I certainly would not expect it to be my right for people to give me their money. I would not get out of whack over kids mowing yards or old folks making a few bucks tilling a garden or an ex yuppie on a Kubota working a few yards for people who were never--NEVER--going to pay a "pro" 3,000 dollars to scratch around for a few hours.
I have gotten that from local mechanics when I do minor repairs for friends on their aircraft and the FBO's get kinda pocessive of other peoples aircraft----repeat--other peoples aircraft and other peoples money and whom are free to spend their money as they please. Since I spent as much time getting my licenses and certifications as they did I cannot see how I am being unethical in performing work for hire or barter. Bartering is, I believe, not taxable. If I replace a mag in trade for flight time or this and that it is between me and my friend--this is a free country I am told.
If I choose to grade my neighbors drive in trade for his electrical work in my new shop etc and the pros get upset the only thing I can say for them is too bad. J

 

[bigpete]

J.,

No fight here, and in fact I agree with your point on the "Union Mentality." The only debateable point in your airplane mechanic analogy is that you do, in fact, posess the same training and certification that the whiners do. Getting an applicator's license in Delaware is no small feat, and carries insurance requirements along with annual mandated continuing education sessions/points. Out here, you can't spread a drop of fertilizer for money without going through the whole process, expense, and annual educational commitment. For that, I give the little guy the nod of respect if he or she has made the investment. However, the fat cats and underperforming companies who are predatory marketers get no sympathy and make my tactor seat even more comfortable. Unfortunately, those are the guys who typically sponsor those overly bureucratic licensing requirements and continually lobby for stricter enforcement out of protectionist instinct.

I'm a free enterprise guy too, I'm just not seeking another enterprise. I spent a lot of time and money on my education and I get a bit pissy when I see that I could have played pinball, chased skirts, and gotten my MBA on the internet in 18 weeks. I know it's different, but I'll get skanked up if I ever lose a job to someone with a business degree from a marginally accredited "matchbook college." If somebody ever starts doing gray-market airplane maintenance, I hope you and your peers torch their certificates.

 

[TresCrows]

bigpete, when I said I hope it does not start a fight I did not mean "just" you. My goal this year is not to start any fights on TBN or participate in any---I am already off to a bad start and I am not talking about this thread.

""I'm a free enterprise guy too, I'm just not seeking another enterprise. I spent a lot of time and money on my education and I get a bit pissy when I see that I could have played pinball, chased skirts, and gotten my MBA on the internet in 18 weeks. I know it's different, but I'll get skanked up if I ever lose a job to someone with a business degree from a marginally accredited "matchbook college." "

I know what you mean bigpete, recently I interviewed for a job I was perfect for and a friend off mine did also. I had all the qualifications. Well, they hired him and not me---hmmm. The job listed specific requirements which I knew the other fellow did not have them all. I happened to see his resume', he fabricated them--he lied! No--I did not tattle-tale on him but I am still trying to figure out in my head what I think of him now. Onward and upward--it kills me though that not only did I have all the qualifications, I also have four college degrees of various sorts to his one. Oh well.
Yes, I think an applicators permit is required for a buisness. Not being completely familiar with what constitutes a buisness I am not sure at what point an amateur would be bending the law. I think but cannot swear to it that a buisness must have some particular annual gross revenue or cash flow??? An amateur making a few dollars on the side may not require such a permit?? In any case, if it is barter system what would qualify as needing a permit. I do know the pros around here have a Kansaw Landscaper License or some such as that. I know if I was a wealthy person and wanted some top notch landscaping and property renovation, ponds, waterfalls, all that built, I would hire one of them to do some of it. Did Johnny Apple Seed have a permit? J

 

[hazmat]

<font color=blue>Yes, I think an applicators permit is required for a buisness. Not being completely familiar with what constitutes a buisness I am not sure at what point an amateur would be bending the law. </font color=blue>

My rule of thumb is that if you get paid to do it, you are in business. Don't know how each state defines it, but I'd guess most would agree. If money changes hands, you need the permit.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Ken,
Glad to see you were able to secure the remaining FC stock. Let me know should you need any parts.


Jim--I currently have in excess of $150,000 New inventory of FC equipment and I think about $7000 came from Midwest Mfg. I do appreciate the offer on the parts support--Ken Sweet