Landscaping implements

[Wheeldog]

I will be buying a tractor (TC21D or B2410) soon and am looking for some opinions on the best implements to get some Spring landscaping jobs done. The tractor will have a FEL and turf tires (for mowing). The jobs I have lined up so far: convert an area of existing lawn to a bed for about 8-12 small trees, plant trees, put in a 4' wide brick walkway (about 50' long) in another area of existing lawn, and put in topsoil and seed for new lawn in a couple of small areas. My main question is: how much sod removal and digging should I expect to be able to do with the loader? Also, does dragging the bucket work OK for grading and leveling. I expect that the loader should be able to handle the weight of a 6-8' tree with root ball, but I'm not sure how much they will weigh.

I live in CT and I would not call our soil overly 'hard'. I can definitely put a spade into it, and I've hand-dug quite a few holes for fence posts. There are definitely a few rocks, but digging can be done.

I realize that I will need to have some ballast on the 3-pt. for the loader work, and I would like to have an implement do double-duty as ballast (rear tires won't be filled). Maybe I'm just repeating one of the box scraper v. rear blade threads here, but I'd like to hear what some of you more experienced landscapers think.

 

[john4nh]

Hi wheeldog, not sure about your soil. But around here we got something called gumbo and its pretty hard soil.. With such a light rig it might be easier and come out more uniformed if you were to run a disc where you want your path, then use your fel to remove the grass and soil. Grass and soil do not spread very easily together no matter who you are. The grass balls up and makes it a pain, but it can be done with time. The front end loader works great for spreading and leveling, but again its gonna depend on your level of experience.. I would think a nice box blade would perform very well for you and possible be a little easier to master. Hope this helps..

 

[LarryT]

Wheeldog,
I have to agree with John. A box blade would make your life much easier and your tractor learning experience much more plesant. Trying to do what you describe with the FEL requires a lot of experience gained by lots of frustration. As has been noted often in this forum, the FEL isn't really meant for digging, but rather for moving already broken up soil (and a thousand other things). I would highly recommend the box blade. Then, of course, rear hydraulic controls (tip and tilt) would make it even better. For a few dollars more..........

Larry...

 

[jyoutz]

If you want to be completely equipped for this type of work, I would get all 3 of these: boxscraper, rake, and rototiller.

 

[TomG]

Grading is something of an art. I never found a FEL very useful, although maybe I didn't stick with it long enough to become artful. I bought a box scraper pretty fast, because the results I was getting with the FEL weren’t great. I think a scraper is the best landscaping tool, if the choice is one implement and not too expensive. I also bought a hydraulic top link soon after I got the scraper. The scraper without a hydraulic link wasn't that great.

Even so, grading is an art, and plan to spend some time getting the hang of it. Also, don't forget the loader. I use the scraper for smoothing and compacting, but I also do the same by back-dragging with the loader. I can't really say why I use one or the other in a particular spot. It's part of becoming artful I guess.

A couple of comments: I cut sod with the scraper's scarifiers, but the operation takes a lot of traction, which I don't have with my turfs. A loader bucket of gravel adds traction. Holding the scraper up with the 3ph to keep the scraper's weight on the rear wheels also helps with traction. For final smoothing and cleaning, a rake is nice, but a drag improves what a scraper will do. A drag can be made from channel iron and chain link fencing.

 

[DFB]

Wheeldog, with the type of projects you have lined up you could put a box scraper to good use for sure. It looks like your main objectives are to dig, scrape, and spread. That's what they're made to do. A tiller and blade along with your loader bucket would work well too.

 

[Thomas]

Wheeldog,
Have you consider a good rake attachment for the finishing of your projects.
Plus the rake in years to come can be most handy.

Hope the storm doesn't hit you to hard down there.


Thomas..NH /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

 

[Wheeldog]

Sounds good. Thanks to everyone for their input.

My biggest concern is how well I'll be able to break through and remove the existing sod, given traction concerns, etc. I'm starting to think I may just go with a 50" tiller - I think I should be able to set the depth to just skin off the sod, or go deeper if need be, and I was toying with the idea of a vegetable garden anyway. That size tiller looks to weigh about 400+ lb, so hopefully that will be enough ballast for most FEL lifting situations. I had originally been set on a box scraper, but there have been a few threads that have talked about how they just don't seem to get used much in the Northeast. It may be that a smallish box scraper won't really dent the soil here. I'll get the dealer's opinion too, but it seems like the tiller may be the first implement of choice.

 

[Bird]

Wheeldog, tillers are expensive (as compared to things like box blades), but almost a necessity for a vegetable garden, and you can certainly use it to remove the sod from the surface. Mine has adjustable skids for depth control and I usually leave it set for maximum depth, but I got the tiller before I got a box blade, and set it shallow several times to loosen up the surface of the ground, then scoop up the loose dirt and/or sod with the front end loader, or back drag with the loader to smooth and level some places.

Bird

 

[Blu21]

I agree with Bird,I have found for the size of my tractor a tiller comes in handy for alot of things.It has worked out well in combination with the loader and backblade.I regraded an area in my yard by first using the tiller to break up the sod and top soil a good 6" then used my rear blade and loader to level it out.Sure beats doing the yard with manual labor.Tom

 

[WVBill]

I guess it's all an acquired skill. I have both a FEL and a box scraper on my B6100DT with filled rear turf tires. I tried several times to use the scraper to scrape off the top layer of sod to prepare a planting bed. Rippers up or rippers down, I just couldn't get the blade to bite through the turf even if I cut a "starting notch" with a shovel. The side plates on the box scraper just wanted to ride on the top of the turf.

So I tried with the FEL. Cut the "starting notch" with a shovel and carefully put the FEL lip into the notch with the bucket rolled just slightly below level. Down pressure adjusted according to the hardness of the soil from "just making the front end light" to "lifting the front wheels off the ground". I then drive forward feathering the bucket curl and down pressure so that I get the bucket level about 2" below ground. The sod just rolls up into the bucket in one long bucket-wide strip. When I have a bucket full, I just raise it and drive it over to my "spoils pile" or where ever I want to put it. I'm thinking that if I had mastered the box scraper, I'd have to turn around and pick up the sod with the FEL to haul it away, so I save a step with the FEL method.

Geeze - I think I made it sound like I know what I'm doing /w3tcompact/icons/blush.gif.

I will need to cut a drainage swale along my driveway in the spring so I'm sure that me and my box scraper will get to know each other real well then...

WVBill

 

[Bird]

WVBill, I'm curious about your box blade. Don't the blades come down below the sides of the box? And then if you have it tilted just slightly forward, I would expect it to cut in. However, sounds to me like what you're going with the FEL is quite likely the best way anyway.

Bird

 

[WVBill]

Bird: I think I just got frustrated with my new toy and didn't spend enough time with it. As I recall, it seemed that when I tilted it back enough for the blade to contact the ground before the side plates, that the rear blade was in contact with the ground and tended to hold it up (like it was "back blading" with the rear blade on the box). I think that rear blade is supposed to swing free but it doesn't seem to. My Father in Law stored it outside so maybe it's rusted.

I'll play with in the spring but I don't know how useful it's going to be. It's only about 40" wide.

WVBill

 

[Bird]

Aaah, you've got a hinged blade, and I wasn't thinking about that. I'm accustomed to just using one with the fixed front and rear blades.

Bird

 

[TomG]

I rip sod by putting the scarifiers all the way down and holding the scraper up with the 3ph. The side plates don't touch the ground unless I start up a hill. Sometimes I have to ride the 3ph or use the diff-lock, but the traction is mostly OK. I'd put more weight in the loader or take out several scarifiers if I couldn't manage the traction. The weight of the box acts as rear ballast when the 3ph holds position control and improves traction.

A second pass with the scarifiers up, the 3ph floated and the front cutter fairly neutral picks up the sod and caries it in the box. At least that worked for a 15' x 50' area for a trailer pad I built this summer. It took me a number of box loads to carry the sod to the end of the pad. Each time the box was full, I tilted up the front cutter (with a hydraulic top-link) so it wouldn't pick up more sod.

I haven't actually seen a hinged rear cutter. However, I believe their advantage is that they can swing up so they don't interfere with front cutter operations. I think that can be an advantage in both cutting and spreading operations. However, I frequently tilt my scraper down so it rides on the back of its rear cutter for compacting gravel. A hinged rear cutter wouldn't let me do that unless the cutter could be locked in place somehow.

 

[WVBill]

As you can see from my earlier posts, me and my box scraper have not yet become "friends" so please excuse what may be a real dumb question.

Tom: in your post you said your box scraper "...picks up the sod and caries it in the box." I've heard others talk about carrying loads in the box scraper too. Is the box really not just dragging its contents along the ground?

My difficulty with this concept on my tractor is that I don't have position control on my 3ph. It's either "up", "down", or "catch it in the middle somewhere". So it seems if I do manage to "fill the box" that I'm most likely to raise it all the way up (or too high anyway) and lose the load if I try to "carry" it anywhere. Even if I did have position control, I can't picture "carrying the load" very far as some leakage would almost certainly occur.

Maybe I'll just practice in the snow the next time. Maybe I can get better with my "catch it in the middle" 3ph.

Any technique hints would be welcome. Thanks

WVBill

 

[Bird]

WVBill, you're right about "carrying" the dirt; you're just dragging it along, and of course, position control is a big help (I didn't have it on my B7100), but even without changing the tilt, usually the box will get full enough it just quits picking up anymore and you can continue dragging to wherever you want it with the blade all the way down (float).

Bird

 

[TomG]

As Bird said, carrying a load in a scraper is just dragging stuff around. It works pretty well, and there isn't as much leakage as you might think.

I end up using the hydraulic top-link for controlling action of the scraper more than the 3ph. For picking up the sod, I would have mostly floated the 3ph. With a hydraulic top-link, the box can be tilted up so the front-cutter picks up material. Then, the box can be tilted down until the front cutter is higher than the material. The box can then be dragged without picking up more material and dumped. The box had to be tilted down quite a bit to keep it from picking up more sod chunks, but less for material like gravel. If the 3ph isn't floated when a load is dragged, then the load is dumped when the tractor goes over a rise, or it digs in when it starts up a rise.

I really don't use position control that much. I do use it for dozing with the rear cutter, for dumping a box and for spreading gravel. In loose gravel, a floated box just fills up and sinks down irrespective of the cutter angles.

If I want to cut a small rise, the hydraulic link is handy for being able to drive along without cutting, adjust the box angle to starting cutting, stop cutting when the box is full, drag it to a low spot, adjust it again to start spreading. Of course, if a rise is close to a dip, I just doz the rise into the dip with the rear cutter.

The point I'm making is that I use a hydraulic top-link much more than the 3ph. I have position control, but you probably can get by with your hitch, especially if there's a hydraulic top link to use. I guess your hitch is one of the centre position types--pull it and it lifts as long as it's held. Push it and it lowers. Actually, such a hitch might work better than OK for the way I use a scraper.

 

[WVBill]

Hmmm... Up 'till now I've been following the "Hydraulic Tip & Tilt" discussions with sort of detached interest thinking it couldn't really be useful or do-able on my little old B6100.

But maybe...., just maybe....

WVBill

 

[TomG]

I'll be thinking about add a hydraulic side leveler if I do much more crowning drives or cutting level pads into hillsides. I can live with climbing on and off the tractor to adjust the side leveler, but hydraulics would be nice. However, since I adjust the top link on the fly, a hydraulic link is an essential for me.