Large acreage question

[capt jack]

My personal thought is that you ought to be able to counter sue some moron trying to sue you for getting hurt while trespassing on your property and any attorney who represents such a freaking thug ought to go to jail as well.

You know, if you have enough land and neighbors not that close, Buzzards and coyotes ar'nt that picky........ they will eat lawyers and defendants

Jack

 

[chh]

Oklahoma passed a "Recreational Use Act" several years ago over the liability issues with people getting hurt on private property. Basically a landowner letting a person use property or using property for recreation is not liable for accidents. We had friends over riding horses last year and I got "briefed" on the subject before I would let anyone come over. I was advised to not accept ANY form of payment even down to letting one of my friends buy lunch for me afterwards. Unfortunately even "winning" a lawsuit can be a devestating financial blow. I am very picky about anyone that I invite on the property and currently have stopped riding thing due to other "issues".

 

[mgamber]

The other was where a child/teenager went to a friends house to ride a horse. The brother of the child/teenager waited until his sister got on the horse and then spooked the horse. The sister got thrown and was severly injured. The family sued the land/horse owner and won. Even though the brother caused the injury.

Its horrible to have to be so defensive about your land but its reality.

Later,
Dan

That actually can't happen in Texas. There is a law that says participation in Equine activity is inherently risky and the individual assumes all responsibility and cannot sue the owner of the horse or the property. All it takes to get that protection is a posting of a small sign with the legally required language.

 

[Duffster]

.

Sounds like unless one inherits the family farm that several million would be required as an entrance fee and several hundred thousand for working capital until one sees any return on investment or work.

Most all production farmers that I know of have purchased or is in the process of buying their farms, even if it a family deal.

Not saying the inheritance thing doesn't happen but it is usually very complicated since you have other family members (typically off farm) that share that inheritance.

 

[tallyho8]

That actually can't happen in Texas. There is a law that says participation in Equine activity is inherently risky and the individual assumes all responsibility and cannot sue the owner of the horse or the property. All it takes to get that protection is a posting of a small sign with the legally required language.

We have that same law in Louisiana but that does not stop people from sueing, though it may help keep them from winning their case. If you get sued, it may cost you many $$$$ to retain a lawyer even if you do win.

At one of our horse shows a few years ago, a child was having trouble getting on her horse so a woman offered to hold her horse while the child got on. The horse pulled back and the lead rope caught on the ladies' fancy ring and ripped her finger. She threatened to sue the horse owner, the property owner, our horse club and everyone else. Luckily, the horse owner's homeowner's insurance company paid her off a few thousand dollars to settle.

 

[archerm3]

This is just a curiosity question. I read at times people here that have hundreds of acres of land, and I知 wondering do you all manage tall that land or just a few home acres and leave the rest just sit?

Do you fence that much land?

I have been looking at some auction with hundreds of acres but that amount of land seems overwhelming to me.

One of my other thoughts how do you keep people off that much land?

Anyway just thought I'd post and see if I can get a better understanding.

My question is just how many people do you think will be out and about, if you go so far outside the city that you can find a few hundred acres.

I suspect, not that many.

Funny story from this weekend. Had a bunch of friends from Omaha, NE (1mil pop) come to a racetrack in a small town of 20K pop for a race. Going to the hotel for the night, they were afraid of leaving their LOCKED car overnight, inside of a Locked, gated racetrack, with security and known, friendly familiar racers in a motorhome inside the track.

I'm like jeez, you guys are paranoid, no one locks the doors to their house in this town, and you guys are worried about a locked car inside of a locked gate with friends sleeping in motorhome 50 feet away. You could probably put a $50 bill on the windshield wiper and it would be there in the morning.

Sure don't miss the mental conditioning that goes along with living in a big city.

If you want to keep people out, then you're going to need an 8 foot fence with concertina on the top. Otherwise, whoever wants to get in WILL get in. Fact is, not that many people are going to want to get it. 3 foot fences and a few signs aren't gonna keep anyone out. Most normal people just don't trapse around in land that they don't know. Please don't bring the big city culture out to the country with you. If the neighbor wants to ride a horse through my land so what, what's it going to hurt? If there is something that's going to be bothered, I would do the neighborly thing, and go tell my neighbors, what my concerns are, and the neighbors, being neighborly, would go out of their way to appease my wishes. Thats the way it supposed to work IMO, and how it works where I live.

But, conducting a weekly table I-VI does discourage trespassers. (that's doing a lot of shooting for you non-Army folk)

 

[The Dougster]

I cannot speak for circumstances in other states, but in Texas, here is how the game is played.... The injured party finds an attorney that will take the case on a contingency basis.... if he wins, he takes 1/3 or more... if he loses, he gets nothing.... Now, he will file a suit for an enormous amount of money.. far more than the insured's policy... this rattles around for a couple of years and just before trial, your attorney that has been hired by your insurance company tells you that you need to hire and attorney to write a letter for you... This letter is sent to your insurance company threatening to sue them for "breach of contract" if they don't settle this issue out of court.... breach of contract in Texas is triple damages.... The insurance company settles for an amount not exceeding the amount of the policy...
Legal extortion? Yup, but that's how the game is played. Sadly.

 

[dmccarty]

That actually can't happen in Texas. There is a law that says participation in Equine activity is inherently risky and the individual assumes all responsibility and cannot sue the owner of the horse or the property. All it takes to get that protection is a posting of a small sign with the legally required language.

NC also has a similar law in case someone in NC did not know.

Later,
Dan

 

[dmccarty]

My question is just how many people do you think will be out and about, if you go so far outside the city that you can find a few hundred acres.

I suspect, not that many.
...

You would be surprised. We have 50ish acres. Touching three sides of our land is roughly another 200-300 acres. Not including the people driving up our road, past the gate and three no trespass signs we have had people walk in or ride ATVs in on all three sides of our land. And these are the ones I know about. I really don't like people I don't know carrying guns on my land much less using them.

When we were looking to buy land we were at a place that was 100 acres. Talking to the old farmer on the front porch of the house where I think he was born. We heard shooting off to the south west and there was a group of hunters on his land chasing rabbits. They were well into his property. We had a chat with them, they were polite and left. But they knew they should not have been there.

My wife has a client that has 100+ acres in the middle of no where. The land owners don't live there but they do have relatives nearby. The land has a major trespass problem. The wildlife officers made a bunch of arrests last spring for trespass and hunting violations.

Later,
Dan

 

[Mike120]

That actually can't happen in Texas. There is a law that says participation in Equine activity is inherently risky and the individual assumes all responsibility and cannot sue the owner of the horse or the property. All it takes to get that protection is a posting of a small sign with the legally required language.

I agree with Tallyho8....you can still get sued and you still have to defend yourself. I carry over $2MM in professional liability on our horse operation.

The other problem when someone gets hurt and goes to the Doctor/hospital is their insurance company. Most policies have a subrogration clause and the insurance company will try to get their money back even though the injured person knows they were at fault.

Even with the Texas Equine Limited Liability Act, I still get signed releases when someone comes on the property and my boarding contracts, etc all have release of liability language. I have never had any problems with individuals....most horse people understand the dangers....especially when dealing with sport horses and young ones. It's always their insurance companies that cause the problems. That's why I have the insurance.

 

[Duffster]

............................

 

[dmccarty]

Ya know I could put up that sign and they would still drive past our gate if it was open.

My wife left the gate open one day to got pick up the kids. I managed to beat them to our road by about 2 minutes. As I was going up the driveway I notice there is a car at the house in our turn around. I start to go into fanny chewing mode. The car had to pass a couple no trespass signs, a gate and fence.

All I have to do is stop the truck and they ain't going anywhere since the driveway is the woods the truck would easily block them in. But I noticed that the driver was a women on a cell phone with a kid in the back. She was scared witless. As she should have been. She was in the middle of now where lost. No body in site but me and no way out. WHY she drove up the one way road past the gate and then up a narrow driveway is a good question.

I went past her in the turn around and she drove like a bat out of hades down the driveway. I called my wife who was a bit behind me to watch out for the lady. They ended up having a nice conversation at the gate.

Is it a sign if you can't even read the signs?

Later,
Dan

 

[Western]

But if the sign said " DANGER HIGH EXPLOSIVES"

Still probably wouldn't work, bummer.

 

[chh]

I have had them come across my cattleguard, past signs, up a rough 1/2 mile drive to my house and then act like they couldn't figuire out why the road ended. Of course the casual "lookers" are better than the flat out liers that where just hoping they could drive in an hunt, steal, or go parkingwithout getting caught. The "hunters" always say they have permission to be on so and so's property and act real suprised that my place isn't that place or that "the old man that owns this place told me I could hunt"(we won't talk about how many years he has been gone). My wife caught a pair of 40 something parkers a couple of years ago in the "act" while taking a walk about 7 one evening. She slammed her hand on the car hood very loudly and she was suprised how high they could jump and how fast they could get "organized". Of course this being the small town that it is, we met her in the isle at Walmart a couple of weeks later, she didn't even stop to say hi.

 

[Ken45101]

I have had them come across my cattleguard, past signs, up a rough 1/2 mile drive to my house and then act like they couldn't figuire out why the road ended.

We are lucky that way. We've had invited people afraid to come up our driveway! LOL

We have had some young folks parking and (presumably) necking down by our gate. Pulled in one evening and walked up to their car with the high beams on them. Asked how they missed the "no trespassing" sign. I also didn't hide the .357 on my hip. Waited for them to back up around the curve and over the bridge. AFAIK, they haven't been back.

 

[LBrown59]

Ya know I could put up that sign and they would still drive past our gate if it was open.
My wife left the gate open one day to got pick up the kids. I managed to beat them to our road by about 2 minutes. As I was going up the driveway I notice there is a car at the house in our turn around. I start to go into fanny chewing mode. The car had to pass a couple no trespass signs, a gate and fence.

All I have to do is stop the truck and they ain't going anywhere since the driveway is the woods the truck would easily block them in. But I noticed that the driver was a women on a cell phone with a kid in the back. She was scared witless. As she should have been
1*. She was in the middle of now where lost. Nobody in site but me and no way out.
WHY she drove up the one way road past the gate and then up a narrow driveway is a good question.
I went past her in the turn around and she drove like a bat out of hades down the driveway. I called my wife who was a bit behind me to watch out for the lady. They ended up having a nice conversation at the gate. Later,
Dan

1*Could it be to ask for directions mabey .
You said she was lost.

 

[LBrown59]

I have had them come across my cattleguard, past signs, up a rough 1/2 mile drive to my house and then act like they couldn't figuire out why the road ended. Of course the casual "lookers" are better than the flat out liers that where just hoping they could drive in an hunt, steal, or go parkingwithout getting caught. The "hunters" always say they have permission to be on so and so's property and act real suprised that my place isn't that place or that "the old man that owns this place told me I could hunt"(we won't talk about how many years he has been gone).
1*My wife caught a pair of 40 something parkers a couple of years ago in the "act" while taking a walk about 7 one evening. She slammed her hand on the car hood very loudly and she was suprised how high they could jump and how fast they could get "organized". Of course this being the small town that it is, we met her in the isle at Walmart a couple of weeks later, she didn't even stop to say hi.

1*Were they married?

 

[LBrown59]

We are lucky that way. We've had invited people afraid to come up our driveway! LOL

We have had some young folks parking and (presumably) necking down by our gate. Pulled in one evening and walked up to their car with the high beams on them. Asked how they missed the "no trespassing" sign. I also didn't hide the .357 on my hip. Waited for them to back up around the curve and over the bridge. AFAIK,* they haven't been back.

*Maybe they don't like your neck of the woods anymore.

 

[cowboy357]

Once again LB , You,ve added some really great input to this thread .

 

[MarkV]

Unfortunately trespassing is an on going problem in my area. We are very rural and the economy is pretty poor here. We have 32 acres that we live on and most of the year it is kids trying to fish without permission. Not that big of problem until deer season. Then all the people that live on a 1/4 acre lot feel like any wooded land is theirs to hunt. We also manage two tracts for my MIL, one 125 acres and the other 70 acres. In May a logger took out 650 feet of fence and skidded trees on the 125 acre tract. Guess they felt like that was easier than staying on the property they were contracted to log. That problem is in the process of going to court to get the fence replaced and tree debris cleaned up. The 70 acre tract my BIL uses as a hunt camp. We have to run off people every year there. They wear camo mask and ride ATV's for a fast escape. The game warden knows who they are but has to catch them on the land. We had 3 arson fires started last year, burned about 10 acres, because the trespassers are upset they can't hunt. The game warden and forest service are working that case.

Those of you who say it shouldn't be that way and people should respect others land are right, unfortunately that isn't the case here. I have stopped putting up posted signs. They only last a week or so and don't help a bit.

MarkV