Last Stand of the 300

[IH3444]

Watched this last night on the History Channel. Have seen the movie, 300. Also was given a book about it from a senior scientist over a month ago. Been reading it, off and on, but now am totally into it. Had no idea what a world changing battle this was, and the birth of democracy. Have read much on the web about the Spartans, and the 300.

History Channel description of the Last Stand of the 300.

"It is almost impossible to understand how 300 Spartans managed to hold off the million-man Persian army for even a moment, much less seven days. To a man they paid with their lives but their stunning Last Stand assured that their sacrifice would resonate throughout history.

Relying on brilliant tactics, lifelong training, and unshakable allegiance, the doomed Spartans achieved the impossible. The Battle of Thermopylae is literally a textbook case, required reading even to this day at military colleges and officer training around the world. Now, THE HISTORY CHANNEL® offers a definitive perspective on the epic conflict with this instructive and thrilling feature-length presentation.

Transporting dramatizations and incisive graphics put you in the heat of the battle and show the lay of the land. The complications and strategies of the conflict are revealed through careful analysis, and critical moments are reconstructed to show exactly what happened. Discover what the Spartans were fighting for, what made them capable of such heroics and what drove them to such sacrifice."

Anyone else see it?

 

[milkman]

I watched it too, can't get enough of this kind of educational material, so interesting. That was a time when the leaders believed in the cause and they fought and gave their lives for that cause, they didn't just send their indentured servants to accomplish their hidden agenda.

 

[LMTC]

While the stand at Thermopylae is indeed interesting and a remarkable military accomplishment, the cause was not freedom, but rather survival for Sparta. The concepts of western political thought and individual freedoms developed far more in Athens and other city-states. The Spartans conquered another people and held them as slaves (Helots) to do all the non-military labor tasks required for Spartan society. They routinely threw "defective" infants from a cliff, sometimes for things like a birthmark that was considered a bad omen. Their military prowess is unquestionable, but their devotion to a concept of "freedom" as eventually grew from Greek sources is at best limited.

BTW, I thought the movie was great. Historically accurate only in the basics, but still good action.

There's a 3 hour DVD called "The Spartans" put out by PBS I think (I rented it on Netflix) that is interesting...no action, just documentary, but interesting.

 

[IH3444]

I never got the impression that the battle was for freedom. The History Channel always seems to check the facts, and reports on the level about subjects. The just I got was that they of course wanted to remain Sparta, and not submit to another's rule.

They also did a program about the Da Vinci code, and enlighten about the facts. That was well done. They would build up the book story, and make it seem it was true, then they would state the facts and just hose down the book story unmerciful. Completely shot down the book in flames......

What did strike me was the the movie 300 has been reviewed by a few History Professors, and some have stated as to the accuracy of the actual battle scences. Fighting close quarter combat with spear, and sword is definetly not for boys...... unless they are Spartan boys

 

[LMTC]

What did strike me was the the movie 300 has been reviewed by a few History Professors, and some have stated as to the accuracy of the actual battle scences. Fighting close quarter combat with spear, and sword is definetly not for boys...... unless they are Spartan boys

That is my understanding too, from what reading I have done. The Spartans were professional warriors, best of the best, and it is not hard to understand how they could do that in the confines of that pass. There is some documentation (more vague than historical info about Thermopylae) of a battle in Britain late in the Roman Empire (Watling Street), where a single legion numbering app. 5,000 was cut off by hordes (not well organized military) from several Celtic factions totalling perhaps 100,000. The Romans chose the battlefield, hemming themselves in to the rear and sides with hills & forest, and in what was purportedly a day long battle slaughtered 80,000 Britons while losing less than a thousand legionnaires.

 

[IH3444]

The take I also have is the Spartans, being professional warriors, trained, and were well schooled in not only tactics, but also strategy. They also, I have read would go forth to meet the enemy and then begain the slaughtering of them, all the while stepping back to uncluttered ground (meaning dead bodies of the enemy), and causing the enemy to have to pass over the fallen bodies of their comrades, having uneven footing, and being demoralized by seeing so many of their fallen. It was stated that the Spartans killed approximately 10,000 each day, only losing a few Spartans the first two days.

On a humorous note, the History Channel program stated that the 300 were the only Senate authorized Spartan warriors allowed to go out and meet the Persians. The remaining 9000 Spartan warriors were not relieved about not being chosen, they felt as if they had been left out of a great party to attend.

I have also read that some of the lines spoken in Frank Miller's movie were actually spoken before, during, and after the battle by the King, his Lt., and the remaing Spartans.

The last scene in Frank Miller's 300 movie is a bit awe inspiring, 9000 Spartans, backed up by 30,000 Greeks. All professional warriors.

 

[dmccarty]

While the Spartans may not have been a democracy their stand, along with the other Greeks at the pass, did allow democracy to flurish. The Hells Gate stand allowed the other Greeks time to organize and concentrate. The Athenians went on to beat the Persians in a naval battle.

The Spartans where not a real nice people/culture. Along with the mentioned killing of babies that where "sickly", whatever that meant, the boys where taken at a young age for military training. They where not given enough food so they had to steal to survive. They would be punished if caught stealing but the punishment was for being caught. Not stealing. Eventually, they terrorized and killed the Helots often at night. They married supposedly for reasons of state but spent most of their time in barracks. Visiting the wifey was a sneak away in the night kinda deal.

They where brave and lived up to their standards as well as dying with them. For that they are admirable. But they where not nice neighbors. And I would not want to be a Spartan. Surely not a Helot.

But would I choose to be a Trojan over a Spartan? That is the question....

Later,
Dan

 

[MossRoad]

Our children's Catholic grade school mascot is the Spartan. The new pastor ain't real keen on that, seeing the Spartan's place in history. I suggested we change it to The Fighting Philistines. The Spartans didn't seem so bad after that.

 

[deereman64]

A book that I found interesting was Carnage and Culture by Victor Hanson.This is a history of large battles and the sociology of the participants. The basic thesis is that in wars between western man and "others" a reason that they were successful was that western man was on the battle field by choice and not forced there. I know this is a huge generalization but nevertheless interesting. The author makes the second point that wheras Western Culture can "accept" mass slaughter it struggles with the death of the individual.

 

[EddieWalker]

When I first saw the preview for the movie, I was hopeful that this is what it was about. I remember parts of the story from grade school and have always been impressed by what they accomplished.

My favorite story about the Spartans is when the the kids were cought playing with a fox they had cought. They were not supposed to be playing with it and knew they had done wrong. One of the kids put the fox under his shirt and never said a word as it chewed out his stomache. He died without making a sound or showing any sign of pain or fear!!!

It's probably not a true story, but so much of the Sparton history is based on not showing pain or fear that there might be some truth to it.

I also remember that they wore red tunics so that the enemy couldn't tell when they had wounded one, or if they had, they couldn't tell how bad it was because the tunic camoflaged the wound.

Great stuff to learn about as a kid!!!

Eddie