Wow, w_harv, thanks so much for the detailed reply. I'm gonna have to print this out and ponder it for a while. My father in law is a retired civil engineer/surveyor. I think I will give him a call and see if he kept any of his surveying equipment. If he kept his transit and tapes, he'd be the one to assist with laying out the fence, eh? Forget the string, just have him set up at a corner, shoot two sides, set up at the opposite corner and shoot the other two sides, just like doing a survey!
Laying Out A Fence
- Thread starter MikePA
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<font color=blue>An obscure reference to Mrs. Horace Rumpole... very nice.</font color=blue>
Gary, guilty as charged! We loved that show. I even bought the appropriate coffee mug and a T shirt from the series. I gave them to my beloved for her birthday a few years ago. I think she liked them, although I haven't seen hide nor hair of the mug lately and the first chance she had, she wore the T shirt while she was repainting a room. Hmmm...../w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif
Gary, guilty as charged! We loved that show. I even bought the appropriate coffee mug and a T shirt from the series. I gave them to my beloved for her birthday a few years ago. I think she liked them, although I haven't seen hide nor hair of the mug lately and the first chance she had, she wore the T shirt while she was repainting a room. Hmmm...../w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif
Anonymous Poster
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wroughtn harv did not know 90s caused panic guess my
jack an jills haint been told neither. id be carefull pullin
wire all you want is talunt
pa
jack an jills haint been told neither. id be carefull pullin
wire all you want is talunt
pa
oombala
Bronze Member
harv ive got about 1,200 feet of 5' vinyl coated chain link to put in eventually. HOW DO YOU LIKE YOUR STEAK ?
WHAT BEER TRUCK DO I NEED TO LEASE?
WHAT BEER TRUCK DO I NEED TO LEASE?
wroughtn_harv
Super Member
Of course the first question I'd have to ask is why chainlink?
It's absolutely the worst choice of fencing for livestock.
It stretches. It's sorta like women's pantyhose except it don't shrink back. It stretches out and that's it.
And livestock thinks it's the greatest thing since rolled oats. It's the world's best back, side, butt, hip, cheek, ear, etc scratcher ever.
Steak: I don't want it mooing, but a whimper or two is okay, don't mind the red running just don't want it jumping off the plate.
Beer: Hardly ever. Bought an eighteen pack some months ago and I think I've had one out of it. Just something I don't have time to do. Nothing wrong with it, just don't have the inclination.
Twelve hundred foot of chainlink in dirt with no special considerations like rock etc, six inch by two foot holes, two days to set it, three to build it, I'm not in the shape I used to be..........
It's absolutely the worst choice of fencing for livestock.
It stretches. It's sorta like women's pantyhose except it don't shrink back. It stretches out and that's it.
And livestock thinks it's the greatest thing since rolled oats. It's the world's best back, side, butt, hip, cheek, ear, etc scratcher ever.
Steak: I don't want it mooing, but a whimper or two is okay, don't mind the red running just don't want it jumping off the plate.
Beer: Hardly ever. Bought an eighteen pack some months ago and I think I've had one out of it. Just something I don't have time to do. Nothing wrong with it, just don't have the inclination.
Twelve hundred foot of chainlink in dirt with no special considerations like rock etc, six inch by two foot holes, two days to set it, three to build it, I'm not in the shape I used to be..........
Anonymous Poster
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wroughtn_harv,,,
I've read two of your excellent posts on this site about laying out a fence line, downloaded one for future reference. But I've got a question about pipe fences. Say I wanted to build a pipe fence on rolling terrain. And I wanted the top rail to follow the terrain in a smooth gentle manner, even where the ground elevation jumps around, like at the creek bed crossing. How would you determine the height of the posts to achieve this look? And how would you form (bend?) the top rail to follow the contour?
You're right, there's already too many bad fences out there. I hate those where the top rail looks like a bunch of individual match sticks welded to the posts. A rich feller up the road had a couple of miles of fence build, and I swear, between the expansion joints and the angled butt welds where the top rails were joined, it looks like it was build out of tinker toys.
I really enjoy your posts, and looking forward to reading your input.
I've read two of your excellent posts on this site about laying out a fence line, downloaded one for future reference. But I've got a question about pipe fences. Say I wanted to build a pipe fence on rolling terrain. And I wanted the top rail to follow the terrain in a smooth gentle manner, even where the ground elevation jumps around, like at the creek bed crossing. How would you determine the height of the posts to achieve this look? And how would you form (bend?) the top rail to follow the contour?
You're right, there's already too many bad fences out there. I hate those where the top rail looks like a bunch of individual match sticks welded to the posts. A rich feller up the road had a couple of miles of fence build, and I swear, between the expansion joints and the angled butt welds where the top rails were joined, it looks like it was build out of tinker toys.
I really enjoy your posts, and looking forward to reading your input.
wroughtn_harv
Super Member
There are a couple of ways. Sighting it in is probably the fastest. I used to have a foreman that could back sight in over grade and it'd drive me crazy he was so good. He just had an eye for it and like I said, it would be so smooth and he'd do it with one shot.
The matchstix thingy you're referring to happens when a tape is dropped at each post for height.
If the grade is gently rolling then what you want to keep in mind is your fence line is going to also be gently rolling. But not to the degree the terrain is. In other words, it's not going to be as high from the ground at the high points of the grade or as close to the ground at some of the low points.
One way of doing this is to set your posts high. Then come back with something visible, heavy cord, hose, etc. With clamps hang the visible medium where you think you want the top rail to lay. That way you can stand back and see it in our mind's eye before you start cutting and welding.
Gravity works as a great bender when you're rolling gentle like. There is a post that is an acrobat article here that has some great information on bending pipe with heat. Something to keep in mind is a lot of folks will use force, like an FEL to pull down the pipe to a post and then weld it in. They've created a problem down the road. That pipe chances are is going to spend most of it's energy from now on trying to get straight again. They might come by some day after the ground is soaked and find that post hanging up there with the concrete still attached.
I see a lot of folks heating the underside of the bend so the pipe kinks. I prefer to heat the outside of the bend so that part stretches. It just gives a lot prettier effect in my opinion.
If you're going to sight in the grade you might have the problem I do most of the time. I start the drop usually two posts later than I should. It's just something with my eye. I wish I could be as good as that foreman I used to have at it. But I'm not. So I cheat and usually set the rolls a little high and then trim to fit. Ten years from now no one will know I had a problem, right?
The matchstix thingy you're referring to happens when a tape is dropped at each post for height.
If the grade is gently rolling then what you want to keep in mind is your fence line is going to also be gently rolling. But not to the degree the terrain is. In other words, it's not going to be as high from the ground at the high points of the grade or as close to the ground at some of the low points.
One way of doing this is to set your posts high. Then come back with something visible, heavy cord, hose, etc. With clamps hang the visible medium where you think you want the top rail to lay. That way you can stand back and see it in our mind's eye before you start cutting and welding.
Gravity works as a great bender when you're rolling gentle like. There is a post that is an acrobat article here that has some great information on bending pipe with heat. Something to keep in mind is a lot of folks will use force, like an FEL to pull down the pipe to a post and then weld it in. They've created a problem down the road. That pipe chances are is going to spend most of it's energy from now on trying to get straight again. They might come by some day after the ground is soaked and find that post hanging up there with the concrete still attached.
I see a lot of folks heating the underside of the bend so the pipe kinks. I prefer to heat the outside of the bend so that part stretches. It just gives a lot prettier effect in my opinion.
If you're going to sight in the grade you might have the problem I do most of the time. I start the drop usually two posts later than I should. It's just something with my eye. I wish I could be as good as that foreman I used to have at it. But I'm not. So I cheat and usually set the rolls a little high and then trim to fit. Ten years from now no one will know I had a problem, right?
dummy
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"Some points on your posts. You're dead set on wolmonized so that's a non issue. If you were my son in law I'd probably tell the daughter to divorce you. She might or might not listen."
OK,what would be better to use? Remember, trying to keep this an economical project.
OK,what would be better to use? Remember, trying to keep this an economical project.
wroughtn_harv
Super Member
I think I'd try for cedar. I understand that in some areas of the country cedar is twice the price of wolmonized.
Another option is some of the new galvanized posts that are out on the market. They work on the C channel theory with a clamp on bracket for attaching wood rails. Their size is such that simple pickets can be used to cover them.
If the budget only allows for wolmonized then be sure and do everything possible for dry material.
I pull wolmonized posts all the time. They rot too.
One of the real gimics I see going on right now locally in the fence industry is selling the customer up on wolmonized pickets and rails for wood fences. The treatment does absolutely nothing for exposure to the air. And treated lumber almost always starts off with a cheaper grade of material. So what the customer is being sold is poorer qualtity lumber for a premium price to cure a problem the material isn't designed to handle. But it sounds good. And it costs more. What more can you ask for?
Another option is some of the new galvanized posts that are out on the market. They work on the C channel theory with a clamp on bracket for attaching wood rails. Their size is such that simple pickets can be used to cover them.
If the budget only allows for wolmonized then be sure and do everything possible for dry material.
I pull wolmonized posts all the time. They rot too.
One of the real gimics I see going on right now locally in the fence industry is selling the customer up on wolmonized pickets and rails for wood fences. The treatment does absolutely nothing for exposure to the air. And treated lumber almost always starts off with a cheaper grade of material. So what the customer is being sold is poorer qualtity lumber for a premium price to cure a problem the material isn't designed to handle. But it sounds good. And it costs more. What more can you ask for?