let her idle or shut her down

[cp1969]

There sure is a lot of opinion here that idling is really harmful to a diesel.

Well, if it is, I should have seen some harmful effects by now but I haven't. Many times we have let trucks idle (at idle--not a fast idle) in the winter because they would not start in the morning if shut off. I once left a Diamond T idling in a Kansas hayfield for 36 hours because the ground had thawed to the point that the truck would not move and that's how long it took before the ground froze hard enough to get it out.

Hauling grain, sometimes you would get in 4-6 hour long lines to unload and every 5 minutes you'd have to pull forward one truck length. Nobody shut their truck off. Starters on those things are very expensive; one of them buys lots of fuel.

I'm not advocating idling on these little tractors, I am just pointing out that there are probably not nearly the adverse consequences as many would have you believe.

Maybe I've been lucky. Does anyone else have personal experience with problems caused by idling?

 

[HGM]

There sure is a lot of opinion here that idling is really harmful to a diesel.

Does anyone else have personal experience with problems caused by idling?

Well, being that I spend alot of time working on PowerStroke diesels(maybe not a tractor, over the road or off road), I can tell you from personal experiecne that with todays EGR system equiped diesels, the coking problems are much more evident than ever before.. No, it didnt start with them, just becomes magnified because of the cooling effect of the exhaust gas.. If you were to pull codes on 90%(again personal experience, with idling customers, leading to an educated guess) of the 7.3L's on the road today, you would get a code for the EBP sensor... This sensor reads the exhaust backpressure to tell the PCM if the exhaust backpressure valve is working, to provide a quicker warm up on a cold engine.. The reason for the code is that the tubes will clogg with carbon/soot and not alow the sensor to read the pressure... This is because of the cold combustion temps and incomplete combustion of an idling engine.. Some have reasons to idle excessively, most do not... My recomendation from personal experience, is not to idle excessively(>5min) if you dont need to.. If you decide to, I dont have a problem with that either... JMO...

 

[ccsial]

My BIL is a big rig diesel mechanic and says the same thing as HGM.

 

[RobJ]

Well, being that I spend alot of time working on PowerStroke diesels(maybe not a tractor, over the road or off road), I can tell you from personal experiecne that with todays EGR system equiped diesels, the coking problems are much more evident than ever before.. No, it didnt start with them, just becomes magnified because of the cooling effect of the exhaust gas.. If you were to pull codes on 90%(again personal experience, with idling customers, leading to an educated guess) of the 7.3L's on the road today, you would get a code for the EBP sensor... This sensor reads the exhaust backpressure to tell the PCM if the exhaust backpressure valve is working, to provide a quicker warm up on a cold engine.. The reason for the code is that the tubes will clogg with carbon/soot and not alow the sensor to read the pressure... This is because of the cold combustion temps and incomplete combustion of an idling engine.. Some have reasons to idle excessively, most do not... My recomendation from personal experience, is not to idle excessively(>5min) if you dont need to.. If you decide to, I dont have a problem with that either... JMO...

But I haven't seen any EGR crap on my personal L2500. Besides, just gun it an blow it out!! But my personal expierence is I shut it down if to long. Especially if someone is with me, I'm hard of hearing so I don't like the noise.

That's my personal story.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Well, being that I spend alot of time working on PowerStroke diesels(maybe not a tractor, over the road or off road), I can tell you from personal experiecne that with todays EGR system equiped diesels, the coking problems are much more evident than ever before.. No, it didnt start with them, just becomes magnified because of the cooling effect of the exhaust gas.. If you were to pull codes on 90%(again personal experience, with idling customers, leading to an educated guess) of the 7.3L's on the road today, you would get a code for the EBP sensor... This sensor reads the exhaust backpressure to tell the PCM if the exhaust backpressure valve is working, to provide a quicker warm up on a cold engine.. The reason for the code is that the tubes will clogg with carbon/soot and not alow the sensor to read the pressure... This is because of the cold combustion temps and incomplete combustion of an idling engine.. Some have reasons to idle excessively, most do not... My recomendation from personal experience, is not to idle excessively(>5min) if you dont need to.. If you decide to, I dont have a problem with that either... JMO...

I'm one of those people salesmen hate. I buy something and expect it to last for MY lifetime (NOT the lifetime of what I bought) I've still got 2 tractors I bought back in 1971 and 1979. I got all bent out of shape when the other one I bought, in 1974, wore out last year and needed to be replaced. Anyway, I've adopted several "rules" on caring for my tractors that have, IMHO, led to them being around and still in remarkable condition for their ages.

1.) Don't leave 'em out in the rain
2.) Don't expect size X to do the job of size Y.
3.) clean fuel
4.) clean filters
5.) wear out grease guns frequently
6.) use good oil, change often.
7.) Don't let ANYONE else get their paws on them
8.) Don't run 'em as hard as they'll go. Moderation.
9.) NEVER let them sit and idle for more than a few minutes.

Now the first 8 may have made #9 irrelevent, but no one will convince me otherwise. These 2 tractors account for a little over 7500 engine hours. The one I sold last year, and 3 others I've owned along the way account for almost 15,000 hours in 35-1/2 years. I may not be "an expert" but all that "time on tractor" should validate my opinion to some extent.

 

[monkeymonk]

Both my cousins Work the pipeline in Alaska The'll tell ya "I put it in and he makes sure it stays there" They told me round winter The diesel Rigs are running 24/7 and get turned off just to have the oil changed! Now thats alot of idle! No It's not good but it is what it is.....

Sure wouldn't whant to buy one of those Rig's

 

[Doc_Bob]

But my personal expierence is I shut it down if to long. Especially if someone is with me, I'm hard of hearing so I don't like the noise.

I try to shut down if I want to talk with someone. My hearing is getting worse. I can't hear very well with a tractor running in the background.
Bob

 

[flusher]

in the course of a project if ya'll need to get off and do some grunt work do you shut the tractor off and restart or let it idle ?
Some times what looks like a 2 minute task off the tractor to pick up limbs or rocks, etc, it turns into 5 - 10 minutes or longer.
those minutes add up over the life of the tractor.
What are ya'lls thoughts.
rack up the time or wear out the starter ?

I have a 21-hp Kubota B7510HST and an MF-135. My worry about long periods at idle is wet stacking. I understand it's a problem for stationary diesel engines and assume it can happen to diesel tractors too.

 

[Doc_Bob]

My worry about long periods at idle is wet stacking.

What is "wet stacking"?
Bob

 

[club car man]

I do both. If I'm hookin up to a boat, I let it idle just incase I have to back up or move forward some more. I don't like shuttin if off for a second then startin it the next. But if I'm going to be off for a little while, I generally shut it off.

 

[Bumble]

Well, being that I spend alot of time working on PowerStroke diesels(maybe not a tractor, over the road or off road), I can tell you from personal experiecne that with todays EGR system equiped diesels, the coking problems are much more evident than ever before.. No, it didnt start with them, just becomes magnified because of the cooling effect of the exhaust gas.. If you were to pull codes on 90%(again personal experience, with idling customers, leading to an educated guess) of the 7.3L's on the road today, you would get a code for the EBP sensor... This sensor reads the exhaust backpressure to tell the PCM if the exhaust backpressure valve is working, to provide a quicker warm up on a cold engine.. The reason for the code is that the tubes will clogg with carbon/soot and not alow the sensor to read the pressure... This is because of the cold combustion temps and incomplete combustion of an idling engine.. Some have reasons to idle excessively, most do not... My recomendation from personal experience, is not to idle excessively(>5min) if you dont need to.. If you decide to, I dont have a problem with that either... JMO...

Working on a lot of Ford gas engines in passenger cars, I also see the EBP or DPFE code A LOT. might not be a diesel thing but a Ford thing.(J/K) Most newer cars seem to have a bit of distance or very akward passages between the EGR and intake area, and every turn is a place for deposit. After a while, the deposits plug the passages and EGR codes are set.
Just my .02
Jim

 

[HGM]

Working on a lot of Ford gas engines in passenger cars, I also see the EBP or DPFE code A LOT. might not be a diesel thing but a Ford thing.(J/K) Most newer cars seem to have a bit of distance or very akward passages between the EGR and intake area, and every turn is a place for deposit. After a while, the deposits plug the passages and EGR codes are set.
Just my .02
Jim

While you are right, the carbon in a gas burners EGR system is more from the PCV system and takes much longer to build up than the diesel fuel does.. Plus, these engines have very little Ford influence.. I have heard of similar experiences with all diesels, nature of the beast..

 

[daTeacha]

I'm with Wilkesland. I leave it run when hooking up or unhooking so I can move the 3 point as needed. Otherwise, I usually shut it down. With the newer tractors, the starting is almost instanteous, so it hardly wears out the starter much. Besides the fuel use, there is the extra little bit of air pollution. If you're working around the tractor at the time you can get a pretty unhealthy does of diesel exhaust which has been proven to be pretty dangerous with respect to lung cancer and such due to the particulate emissions.

 

[RobJ]

What is "wet stacking"?
Bob

General term that if you let the diesel idle for long periods the unburnt fuel will begin appear in the exhaust. When I rebuilt engines we also used this term for lightly loaded diesels that never really broke in correctly (seated the rings). In some extreme cases we would put the engine on our water brake dyno and run them for a few hours. To give you an idea some of the engines could be in the field for weeks and the paint on the muffler is still there. After about 60 seconds on the dyno at full load (and 900 degree exhaust temps) the paint would burn off in no time. On the generator sets we build we loaded them by hooking the gens to a water tank grounder thing (not sure what they really called it). But basically a 6x6 water tank that had a metal eletrode (connected to the gen) that was slowly winched into the water to create a load. We liked that one better because it was outside!!! Earphones, earplugs, etc....

 

[joerocker]

So, what you're all saying is that with a diesel...hotter is better...to a point of course. Let it idle ONLY when necessary...and when you do, keep the revs up a bit to keep the temperature up...

 

[flusher]

General term that if you let the diesel idle for long periods the unburnt fuel will begin appear in the exhaust. When I rebuilt engines we also used this term for lightly loaded diesels that never really broke in correctly (seated the rings). In some extreme cases we would put the engine on our water brake dyno and run them for a few hours. To give you an idea some of the engines could be in the field for weeks and the paint on the muffler is still there. After about 60 seconds on the dyno at full load (and 900 degree exhaust temps) the paint would burn off in no time. On the generator sets we build we loaded them by hooking the gens to a water tank grounder thing (not sure what they really called it). But basically a 6x6 water tank that had a metal eletrode (connected to the gen) that was slowly winched into the water to create a load. We liked that one better because it was outside!!! Earphones, earplugs, etc....

Correct. But the unburned diesel fuel also washes the lubrication off the cylinder walls, rings, pistons causing potential increased wear.

 

[CurlyDave]

Think Safety. Shut it down.

Everything around here is on a slope. Sooner or later a piece of idling equipment might start creeping away while I'm looking the other way. Or worse, toward you while your back is turned.

This is excellent advice.

Another reason that safety dictates shutting down is that it is very easy to brush a control when mounting or dismounting. I just do not need any unexpected motion while I am half in and half out of the seat. Plus consider the issue if you slip and instinctively grab the joystick.

I only need to avoid geting run over once to pay for a lot of new starters and fresh batteries.

 

[cp1969]

Working on a lot of Ford gas engines in passenger cars, I also see the EBP or DPFE code A LOT. might not be a diesel thing but a Ford thing.

Exactly. I've had one of those DPFE sensors/valves/whatever-it-is shoot craps on a 3.0L V6 Ford gas engine that has as little idle time on it as one could reasonably expect to have.

I suspect all that is more of an EGR thing than a diesel thing. If diesels can no longer idle whereas they once could, then the problem is an EGR related issue, not a characteristic of diesel engines themselves. And the engines in question here have none of that EGR junk on them.

 

[ArchyD]

At $3.00 a gallon for diesel, shut it down!

 

[HGM]

Exactly. I've had one of those DPFE sensors/valves/whatever-it-is shoot craps on a 3.0L V6 Ford gas engine that has as little idle time on it as one could reasonably expect to have.

Did you change it yourself? If so, you would know that it failed because of moisture build up due to condensation....Not carbon/soot...

I suspect all that is more of an EGR thing than a diesel thing. If diesels can no longer idle whereas they once could, then the problem is an EGR related issue, not a characteristic of diesel engines themselves. And the engines in question here have none of that EGR junk on them.

I suppose you can continue to believe that if it makes sense to you.. For those that are still interested in the personal experience opinion, EGR does in fact magnify the coking issue, no denial there.. But carbon build up, wet stacking, or whatever you like to call it most certainly is a characteristic of the cold combustion of an idling diesel.. You would just have no indicator of it unless you disassembled it, so unless you do your own work on your diesels, you wouldnt know..You may want to look at the exhaust system on as many diesels as you can, trucks, tractors, cars, whatever.... You will notice they vary from remarkably clean(for a diesel), dry powder like, to heavy buildup, wet and sticky..Then you could ask the owners how they treat idle time..

The EGR systems produce problems because the EGR will stick open, this will cause a reduction in boost, so the PCM will fuel up to correct for the lower boost, producing black smoke..In your case, described earier, it makes good sense to leave it running due to extremely low temperatures as it would be running at significantly higher temps than ambiant, though a raised idle is still a better idea..