Let neighbor use my brand new road

   / Let neighbor use my brand new road #32  
Superduper said:
Hello Stumpfield,

I am a licensed real estate agent licensed to practice in California. Please take everything seriously that the folks here have advised for you. While your neighbor can be very nice and sweet, allowing use of the property can only open a pandora's box for the future. Numerous issues are involved not the least of which are opening the door for a future prescriptive easement as well as liability concerns. A written agreement granting permission might protect you from future easement claims, or it might not. What shall happen 20 years from now when your memory fades a bit, you are unable to recall or find this document and/or heaven forbid the unexpected happens to you? The only thing for certain is that the use has been ongoing and open. Furthermore, accomodating traffic ensures that you now have agreed to take on the liability of additional traffic on your property. So someone she knows (or will know in the future) begins to utilize the drive for trucks, tractor, who knows what else, will you put a stop to their access after say 5 years? Too many factors, variables and unknowns for the future can only lead to trouble. Besides, I guarantee that as difficult as it may be to say no, or to put a stop to it now, it will be infinitely more difficult 5 years from now when you have a change of heart.

Do the wise thing and DO NOT GIVE PERMISSION. If you have already given permission, REVOKE it immediately. Heck, give an excuse and say that your attorney friend, or brother in law, or someone close to you, TOLD you to put a stop to it. In any event, the following link might be valuable for you to read up on involving adverse possession. While adverse possession is much more difficult (someone taking ownership of all, or a part of anothers property) through open use, an easement by prescription claim is quite common. Once it is in place, it is almost impossible to revoke and requires you to maintain all of the costs and burdens of ownership but yet continue to provide access for another's benefit. Heck, your future neighbor might not look like Christie Brinkley but rather look like Oscar Madison. Doesn't matter, he has access. And of course, it limits yours, and your buyers options and ability to freely develop and use your property as you see fit. Know also that you reside in one of, if not the most liberal states in the nation with courts to match. Therefore, should you find yourself defending a future claim of ownership or possession or bodily injury or property damage, know now that the outcome is far from a certainty given our courts history and record. The one certainty that you can derive is that it will be a costly legal battle.

Just my 2 cents.
Disclaimer (standard stuff to protect my butt): I may be right, but then again I may be wrong. This is not legal advice, or even Real Estate advice. Everyones situation is unique and sound advice can only be obtained when all facts and factors are considered. Certainly, you are warned not to rely on this users forum post (or any post responding to a one paragraph question by someone not 100% familiar with your situation) to manage your legal affairs. You should seek the advice of a Real Estate attorney to discuss your situation fully and in depth PRIOR to making any decision, without which you should proceed at your own risk.

Link below (even includes sample consent form, as requested):
Trespass, Adverse Possession & Easements
After having read this entire post (to date) I have to say that this is the BEST advise given! Anything short of this is just plain asking for trouble. Do this or at least consult with a lawyer, but also keep in mind that the lawyer will also consider future earnings from YOU!
bottom line, change the combination, tell her NO and post the gate.
 
   / Let neighbor use my brand new road #33  
I've been down this path and everyone has brought up very good points. In absence of a road maintenance agreement the Cal Civil Code provides guidance, if you need the Code number I can look it up. Local fire and building codes can also have an impact. Here in SLO, a driveway serves a single parcel and depending upon length, grade, and fire hazard can be as narrow as 12 feet, and the required surface can vary accordingly. However, once it serves more than one parcel it becomes a road and must be at least 16 feet. Furthermore, a residence may have only one point of access.

Check your local codes, this stuff and get real sticky especially as the players change over time. If you need an agreement, I can provide a copy of ours.

Best of luck.
 
   / Let neighbor use my brand new road #34  
marks said:
I've been down this path and everyone has brought up very good points. In absence of a road maintenance agreement the Cal Civil Code provides guidance, if you need the Code number I can look it up. Local fire and building codes can also have an impact. Here in SLO, a driveway serves a single parcel and depending upon length, grade, and fire hazard can be as narrow as 12 feet, and the required surface can vary accordingly. However, once it serves more than one parcel it becomes a road and must be at least 16 feet. Furthermore, a residence may have only one point of access.

Check your local codes, this stuff and get real sticky especially as the players change over time. If you need an agreement, I can provide a copy of ours.

Best of luck.

Going back to the original post, Stumpfield requested input regarding permitting neighbor at NO cost to use his good condition driveway because neighbor's driveway is not as nice, convenient, what have you. There is only one party here benefitting from such arrangement and a road maintenance agreement merely solidifies Stumpfields obligation and responsibility and does nothing to protect his rights, assets, and other interests, nor does it indemnify against liability. Rather, it could have the opposite effect as a party driving through it and is subsequently injured or causes injury could always attribute the cause to the condition of the roadway, which as we know, will fall on Stumpfield's shoulder. The presence of a road maintenance agreement with Stumpfield as the maintenance obligant will ensure that he bears the full responsibility as well as cost and liability. In my opinion, such an agreement is counterproductive unless both parties share in the maintenance costs. However, a shared maintenance agreement now opens up another pandoras box as the other party now has a written agreement for right to access and revocation will be difficult if the neighbor actually contributed any money towards the road maintenance. After all, you can't take someone money and refuse to provide the goods/services.
 
   / Let neighbor use my brand new road #35  
It is a shame that greed and lawyers have made it so that we cannot be good neighbors even when we want to. This aspect is being discussed elsewhere, but regardless who's to blame it is a sad commentary on our society and culture. It is remarkable and sad that the notion of two reasonable adults reaching an agreement between themselves is seen as absurd.

Soapbox aside, I think you have gotten good advice. Either, just say no or if the impulse to be kind and neighborly is too strong, consulting a lawyer is the way to go. Let an attorney help you help someone else.
 
   / Let neighbor use my brand new road #36  
N80 said:
It is a shame that greed and lawyers have made it so that we cannot be good neighbors even when we want to. This aspect is being discussed elsewhere, but regardless who's to blame it is a sad commentary on our society and culture. It is remarkable and sad that the notion of two reasonable adults reaching an agreement between themselves is seen as absurd.

Soapbox aside, I think you have gotten good advice. Either, just say no or if the impulse to be kind and neighborly is too strong, consulting a lawyer is the way to go. Let an attorney help you help someone else.

Have to agree...been following this thread and its really sad to see where it went. Perhaps one of the issues is that our society has few adults.
 
   / Let neighbor use my brand new road #37  
The thread is a land use issue. Land uses will out live neighbors.

-Mike Z.
 
   / Let neighbor use my brand new road
  • Thread Starter
#38  
jimg said:
Have to agree...been following this thread and its really sad to see where it went. Perhaps one of the issues is that our society has few adults.

You're right about this. I'm shock to learn that there's no easy way to let anyone use any part of your property. Especially a "neighbor".

I just learned an actual case of a couple being nice people and let their neighbor use the road on their remote vacation property. It was fine a for 12 years until the neighbor got a new girl-friend and wants to develop the property. Their supposely "nice" neighbor sued to take the strip of land by adverse possession. 100' wide for the entire length of the road and "lock" them out from accessing their own property and threaten to tear down the barn that is along the road. The couple eventually won the case but costed them 10's of thousands of dollars on attorney fees. The scary part was that there are many of cases adverse possession prevailed.

Why the heck in this 21st century we still have a crazy law like that? What happen to private property rights?
 
   / Let neighbor use my brand new road #39  
No is still a Strong word as you look into your neighbors eyes.........
 
   / Let neighbor use my brand new road #40  
stumpfield said:
You're right about this. ...

Excellent! Just take baby steps ... you'll get the hang of these hills before it costs you too much. :)
 

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