Let neighbor use my brand new road

[WayneB]

When you are dealing with your property, your right to ownership, and how the property will be used I advise everyone to be extremely careful when trying to understand the legal system and interpretation of the law.

A case in point would be I own a few lots that abut a discontinued roadway. This roadway was closed and the land returned to the abutters back in 1876. I happen to own land on both sides of the old road so there is no roadway. Right?

So I put up a gate to close off the old lane to public traffic. Was I right in doing this NO I was taken to court by someone that own land that is land locked and the court stated I could not block the road. Further more by prescriptive law the public has a right to ingress and egress to enjoy nature.

I am not permitted to block the roadway or do anything that would make the roadway difficult to pass on. This took three different court cases and about 12,000 dollars to exhaust all of my avenues legally.

The final judgment was the public could travel by our house whenever they wish and the court also invoked a 5 MPH speed limit to slow down traffic passing our house. The kicker is the court did not designate who would post the speed limit and maintain it. End result is the town refuses to honor the courts findings. End result is we have traffic going as fast as they wish on private property and the town will do nothing about it because it is not a town maintained roadway.

Now the real kicker is our local planning board issued a building permit on property behind us with a private driveway entrance. Guess where that is, right off from the old discontinued road. I did not have the money to fight it in court so it was approved. Only problem is they do not and will not have an easement to bring utilities across my land. So I am waiting for that paper to be served.

Bottom line is do not let anyone use your land or open the door for any type of private easement. If you do trust me you won't sleep well at night.

 

[Superduper]

........Further more by prescriptive law the public has a right to ingress and egress to enjoy nature.........

I am not permitted to block the roadway or do anything that would make the roadway difficult to pass on. ............

The final judgment was the public could travel by our house whenever they wish and the court also invoked a 5 MPH speed limit to slow down traffic passing our house. The kicker is the court did not designate who would post the speed limit and maintain it. End result is the town refuses to honor the courts findings. End result is we have traffic going as fast as they wish on private property and the town will do nothing about it because it is not a town maintained roadway.............

Now the real kicker is our local planning board issued a building permit on property behind us with a private driveway entrance. Guess where that is, right off from the old discontinued road. I did not have the money to fight it in court so it was approved. Only problem is they do not and will not have an easement to bring utilities across my land. ...

As I previously mentioned, an easement is not a good thing. You will not have the right to develop, alter, change, or otherwise freely enjoy any aspect of the land (beyond what others also enjoy) but will have all the burdens of ownership such as liability, taxation, etc, etc. I will not be suprised in the least should you be forced to install the signs either by choice (to reduce liability or noise) or by force. The easiest thing for you might be to deed the land to the city/county so that they can improve and/or maintain the roadway but of course this will make it a real road with all of the undesirable things that go along with having a road run through your property.

 

[hitekcountry]

You say that her access road is poorly maintained now; well you can be sure that if she can use your nice new road she has no need to any longer maintain the old road. In no time at all the old road will be full of weeds then bushes and eventually a number of trees to the point where it will become totally impassable. At some point it could become impossible to change your mind and not allow access through your property.

I didn’t just dream up this scenario, this is what happened on the road I live on. My road originally served five houses, and then the people that owned the land down below decided to split their property to create four more lots. Their original access was through another road but it was difficult to get trucks in and out so they asked permission from the guy at the end of our road (one of their friends) to get access off the corner of his property onto our road. Over time that access became paved and the old road (which went right past the developers house) became over grown to the point that you would never know a road was ever there. All this happened before I moved here. I know the present arrangement is permanent. Seems to me you could be setting yourself up for something similar.

 

[riptides]

As I previously mentioned, an easement is not a good thing. You will not have the right to develop, alter, change, or otherwise freely enjoy any aspect of the land (beyond what others also enjoy) but will have all the burdens of ownership such as liability, taxation, etc, etc. .

Not necessarily, it depends on what type of easement, and what your doing to your land.

-Mike Z.

 

[Superduper]

Not necessarily, it depends on what type of easement, and what your doing to your land.

-Mike Z.

So if it is a road easement, and you wanted to move it someplace else, or block it off, or put up a gate, or place a swimming pool there instead, you are out of luck if anyone challenges this.

So if it is a utility easement, and the power line, over or underground, is in the way, and you wanted to place a barn, or storage shed there, you are out of luck if utility company challenges this, which they will.

So if you have a storm drain easement there for other properties to channel water away and under your property, and you wanted to put a swimming pool there, or a bunker, or bomb shelter, or a house/garage/barn there, you are out of luck as all parties benefitting from the easement will ce r tainly challenge this.

So when you say it depends, perhaps it would be best if you can give an example of what you mean and how you feel such easement would not interfere with your free use of the property? Free use would mean that you can make any and all choices and uses of the property as you could, if the easement were not in existence.

 

[WayneB]

So if it is a road easement, and you wanted to move it someplace else, or block it off, or put up a gate, or place a swimming pool there instead, you are out of luck if anyone challenges this.

This is certainly true! You cannot move the easement without court or town approval. In my situation the court stipulated that there would be no parking anywhere along the roadway, no blocking of any portion of the roadway and no one can erect any gate preventing access to the roadway! But, the court did not appoint anyone to oversee his findings, so the only way would be for someone to challenge anything that is done on the roadway.

So if it is a utility easement, and the power line, over or underground, is in the way, and you wanted to place a barn, or storage shed there, you are out of luck if utility company challenges this, which they will.

One nice thing in New Hampshire is the Public Utilities company will not install any power service over or under private property even if there is a roadway easement for ingress and egress. Only way is for the private landowner to sign an right-of-way easement with the Public Utilities Company. The telephone company will only provide service if the Utilities company has a documented easement.

So if you have a storm drain easement there for other properties to channel water away and under your property, and you wanted to put a swimming pool there, or a bunker, or bomb shelter, or a house/garage/barn there, you are out of luck as all parties benefitting from the easement will ce r tainly challenge this.

This seems extreme and something that would really be interesting to follow in the court system.

So when you say it depends, perhaps it would be best if you can give an example of what you mean and how you feel such easement would not interfere with your free use of the property? Free use would mean that you can make any and all choices and uses of the property as you could, if the easement were not in existence.

In my situation we are talking about a roadway that was closed by the town fathers because of the hills and inability to roll the snow in the wintertime.
See pictures!

A new road was constructed that went around the hillside and into town. Back then it was done by town vote and once closed the land was returned to the owners. In order to reopen a road it requires a vote by the town and compensation to the landowners.

In most of the civil law suites I believe it is the person with the deepest pockets that wins. That was what I ran into. To go to a higher court I was looking at going back to court and spending more money with no real chance of winning. It would prolong the findings but in the end I would be out the money and have to go through it all again.

One other piece of advice DO NOT give anyone an easement unless you are ready for something to happen down the road when someone else wants an easement. The courts will view the earlier easement and grant someone else an easement using that situation.

 

[MarkV]

Wayne, I had never heard of rolling snow. Was that done because they lacked the power of mechanization to remove it or was this early enough that sleighs were used as transportation and the rolling identified the road?

MarkV

 

[WayneB]

Mark back in the 1800's towns mainly rolled snow on the roads in the country. There were wooden snow plows that a team of horses (usually 4 to 6 horses) could pull. Used in cities and towns, but in the country rolling was the way to go. This would hard pack the snow and then the slieghs could travel over the roadway.

 

[WayneB]

Wayne, I had never heard of rolling snow. Was that done because they lacked the power of mechanization to remove it or was this early enough that sleighs were used as transportation and the rolling identified the road?

MarkV

I messed up and deleted the pictures so here they are

 

[mjarrels]

Based on what I'm reading here, I wonder how long people can rent a house before claiming it's now theirs? I have know people who rented the same house well over 20 years.

mark