Let them take everything?

[Richard]

Rox, obviously I don't know all of your situation but... if you own anything here in the US then instead of just having wills made, I'd look into having a living trust.

I don't know that it would make the most sense in your case and I'm not an attorney that deals with them.... I AM however, going to be staying in a Holiday Inn express next week when I travel to Arkansas!!! (true!)

So, the important thing in my opinion would be to find an estate attorney and I'd ask him about a trust and if he poo-poos a living trust, I'd personaly want him to convince me why it's a BAD idea.

Remember....all your stuff is going to have to go through probate. That is the direction a will is taking you.

If a trust makes sense in your situation (I personally think everyone should look into one) then anything that the trust owns (and of course, you'd put near everything into it) can bypass probate and the associated expenses of that process.

Not to mention, the goings on of a trust will be kept private where as the probate process is public domain, as I understand.

Sounds like you're halfway there since you seem to know how things are to be divided when it gets passed on....now all you need to do is find out how to do that the most efficiently and you're done!!

 

[Richard]

So, the important thing in my opinion would be to find an estate attorney and I'd ask him about a trust and if he poo-poos a living trust, I'd personaly want him to convince me why it's a BAD idea.

Let me explain that a bit further...

I've been in meetings with attorneys OR, been meeting people who have met with the attorneys and the people have been told in essence "you don't have enough assets to need a trust"

That might clearly be true HOWEVER, I personally think there are two sides to why someone might want to have a trust.

First... if married, then you can preserve the estate exemption for one of the spouses when they pass. The remaining spouse still keeps ALL the assets for their beneficial use however, on the demise of the first spouse, you can put an amount up to their exemption into their half of the trusts name (which the survivor spouse still controls and benefits from) When the second spouse passes, both halves of the trust go to the beneficiaries and the exemption for the first spouse is preserved.

Why is that a specific bite in my behind? My father in law has a large farm, probably easily worth over 4 million today. When he bought it, it was joint with his wife and not in any trust. They had a traditional will where everything went to the spouse.

When she passed, had it been in a trust, her part, let's say 1 million could have been preserved in the trust as part "B", still owned/controlled by him. Today, if he passed HIS value of the trust would be 3 million (his 2 million plus her 1 million)

Her 1 million exemption could have passed to their kids and (today) his 2 million exemption could pass to the kids, totalling 3 million exempt from estate tax.

As it is, her half went to him and now, he can pass his 2 million so they'll have to pay estate tax on 2 million instead of 1 million.

He essentially pissed away $500,000 in estate tax.



What if someone's net worth is 1.5 million and the exemption is 2?

Well...maybe finacially you don't need a trust. There is also the practical and emotional side....

I put it this way....

Would you today... want to go to the courthouse & deal with the pain in the neck of changing the title to your home? Then go to the department of motor vehicles & change the title to your car? Then go to the bank & change the title to your CD's & checking? Then go to your broker and change the title to your brokerage accounts?

No I'd bet. That is a royal pain in the hiney

Now... how would you like to not only be FORCED to do the above, BUT have to do it while also dealing with the court system and needing a bunch of legal papers? (as executor)

I'd suggest to you that it's FAR easier for the proper owner of the assets to waltz in and with a stroke of their pen, change the title of something (move it into the trust) than the executor of the estate being required to deal with court documents in addition to the above. Please don't forget that if you deal with a brokerage account, you ALSO have to bring in (in some states) state tax waivers as well as provide a court certified letter of testementary that is LESS than 30 days old. OOps on you if that letter of testementary is 32 days old because you'll be marching your hiney back down to the courthouse to get a fresh one.

If dear ole mom & dad simply signed forms & put things into a trust, then the successor trustee essentially walks into the bank/brokerage firm, other... hands them a death certificate and a copy of the trust (which they'd actually have on file) and then can with a stroke of their pen, start to make decisions for the trust assets.

It greatly relieves what I've seen as simple emotional turmoil during a time when the beneficiaries are already going to be in a very bad emotional state (from having lost you)

So, go see an attorney and if he says a trust makes sense, do it. If he says it doesn't make "financial" sense, so be it, but remember, there is more to it than the simple financial aspect of it.... I presume you love your kids and don't want them to be burdoned more than necessary.

Again, I'm not an attorney. All the above is just from experiences I've seen over the last 20 years, including some related to myself.

 

[4720 OWNER]

4720 OWNER If I may say, that is an awfully odd will for people with children to make. They each willed to each other and no one else? So when they both passed any assets went to the state? Did an attorney draw that up? I kind of wondered about your earlier post but now I understand your point of view.

Dad did not get anything from his family so he felt the kids should not get anything from their parents as well. It was a Walmart will, did not believe in attorneys or insurance, or banks much. For what it is worth, $500000 went to the state that would have paid for it all anyway. Oh well, he earned it on his own so he can do what he wants.

 

[rox]

Dad did not get anything from his family so he felt the kids should not get anything from their parents as well. It was a Walmart will, did not believe in attorneys or insurance, or banks much. For what it is worth, $500000 went to the state that would have paid for it all anyway. Oh well, he earned it on his own so he can do what he wants.

4720- you should have put a comma in $500000. I had to take my finger and move it over the screen to make sure I was reading it right. Insert human whistle sound here- Sorry for saying it but that is cold man, that was really cold. To turn your assets over to the state when you are not even around anymore rather than your own children, that's cold. You seem to have come to terms with it and I bet you will never ever do that to your own children. Our family on both my husband's side and my side werre not wealthy enough to leave anything to anyone. It is only my parents generation that will be the first generation to actually have anything to will to anybody. My husband's mother is poor and always has been. She gets a subsidized studio apartment in a Senior building and her children take care of her. My ister in law brings her over dinner each and every night. What a daughter. She is 91 and she doesn't look like she will be leaving us any time soon. She gets a small check every month from the government I don't know perhaps 200 to 300 Euros I month, just a guess on my part how much but I know it is not much and her only bill is her telephone bill. Our family has never dealt with will and estates before becuase nobody had an "Estate" soI appreciate the conversation about it. My parents have a trust and I know my brother will be executor and since both my parents are relatively healthy it is not anything I think about.

 

[SPIKER]

what was mentioned above is very true about the trusts ect. as one of the guys I work with (he is ~45) and has worked his dad's farm since a boy old enough to walk. his mom died ~5+ years ago, his dad re-married to a much younger woman (infact he went to school with his NEW mom) and she has since pretty much taken every thing from his dad & his dad is in pour health. the FARM is going to be sold and put into a JOINT account so that SHE gets every thing when his dad dies! Now dave has worked this land farmed it for last 40 years prety much and will end up with nothing from the farm... His dad won't even sell it to him for anything less than what SHE thinks it is worth!...

SO if you DO have some net worth that you want to go to the kids the trusts set up BEFORE one of the parents dies is much better way to go...

Markm

 

[rox]

what was mentioned above is very true about the trusts ect. as one of the guys I work with (he is ~45) and has worked his dad's farm since a boy old enough to walk. his mom died ~5+ years ago, his dad re-married to a much younger woman (infact he went to school with his NEW mom) and she has since pretty much taken every thing from his dad & his dad is in pour health. the FARM is going to be sold and put into a JOINT account so that SHE gets every thing when his dad dies! Now dave has worked this land farmed it for last 40 years prety much and will end up with nothing from the farm... His dad won't even sell it to him for anything less than what SHE thinks it is worth!...

SO if you DO have some net worth that you want to go to the kids the trusts set up BEFORE one of the parents dies is much better way to go...

Markm

You know that is a real issue, the remarriage of a surviving spouce. But on the other hand it is the assets of the parents to do with as they wish. I always think therre is trouble brewing when kids "plan" on inheriting. For myself I have always though, "Well it is their money" If the second wife gets it all well that is what the father wanted. No doubt she made him very happy or he woulsn't have done it that way. It is far better to works towards building up your own estate than concentrating on what you "might" inherit, IMHO.

 

[2manyrocks]

Kids of the first marriage v. stepmom--happens all the time, especially if the husband and his lawyer haven't planned to deal with it in advance before the husband dies. Wifey won't like any estate plans that cut back on what she sees as hers whether it is good estate planning or not.

We've all heard it before. "She made her money the old fashioned way. She married it."

 

[LBrown59]

even if they foreclose, its my understanding that you (someone) are still the hook for the balance of the loan. If the load was for 80K and they auction for 50K you (someone) still owes the bank 30K.

..

An individual is never obligated to pay the expenses of an estate.
If there is not enough money there the party owed is simply Sol.