Buying Advice Liens

[BillySunday]

Farm equipment have no titles. When I find a used tractor or any farm equipment that I want to buy, how do I buy with the peace of mind it doesn't have a previous bank lien or any kind of lien? Even at auction how can I be sure it is free and clear of liens?

 

[mddorange]

Are you related to the infamous Preacher or did your folks think that it would be fun for you to have that name?

In most states, liens have to be registered but the hook is that they are registered in the state with the originating loan.

 

[BillySunday]

I don't like hooks! If I am paying $50,000 for a used tractor, how do I know someone didn't bring it here (with lien attached) from another state? I pay $50,000 then a bank shows up with a 1st superior lien. Makes me not want to buy a used tractor. I have trouble understanding why anyone would buy a used tractor if they like sleeping at night.

 

[mddorange]

Yes, that is the rub. You read about this happening all the time.

 

[prichard]

I wonder if you could ask where it was purchased then all that dealer how it was financed.

 

[My Gym]

There was a long thread discussing this problem previously. No you cannot be sure of a clear title even on new equipment. There are things you can do to help prevent problems. Always get a signed bill of sale stating that the equipment is being sold with clear title. If it is a private sale have it notarized. Check out the person or company selling the equipment. Make sure that he or the company has assets that you can go after if you take the sale to civil court. Do not be afraid of getting the criminal courts involved. Selling equipment that you do not have title to is a crime and at $50,000 it is a felony. If you are buying from someone you do not know, who has no assets, because it is a good deal. GOOD LUCK

 

[mcfarmall]

Most financial institutions can give you a "payoff letter" or some document stating that the loan has been paid in full. You could ask for that document when purchasing from a private seller but might be a bit more difficult to obtain if the machine was sold at auction.

 

[Slowpoke Slim]

No you cannot be sure of a clear title even on new equipment.

Wut?

Explain how brand new equipment, bought from a dealer, can have lien problems? I don't see how that's possible.

 

[My Gym]

From Other thread on this subject.

"in 2006 I bought a john deere tractor and loader from a local dealer.a few months rocked on and the dealer called wanting to pick up my tractor immediately for warranty service they said on the front axle.they came and got it the next day and kept it a couple days.i got it back and it was all cleaned up.came home a couple days later and a john deere investigator had been at my house and left a card and a note instructing me to call him.well apparently this dealer was selling tractors and not paying john deere for them.the dealer got wind that john deere was coming in to check his inventory,so he had to round up a few tractors to put back on his lot.a guy I work for said they also came and got his for a few days and brought it back all cleaned up.the investigator wouldn't tell me much about the dealer,my first response to him was I wrote a check for the tractor to the dealer and had all the proof of where I did.the dealer went out of business a little while later.the other local deere dealer got all his inventory and he had several brand new lawn mowers in crates that was several years old.i was sweating for a little while though when I seen that an investigator had been here."

If it is a large amount of money ALWAYS GET THE PAPERWORK. Most dealers have leins on their inventory. Selling equipment without clear title is criminal. Manufacturers will go after the dealer both civil and criminal. With no proof of purchase or unreasonable price you could be investigated or criminally charged. It is rare.

 

[TheMan419]

Even worse is the lien's are indexed by the name of the borrower not the serial number of the tractor.

So if I bought my tractor used from Bob and then sold it to you....

You search my name for liens and none come up. HOWEVER there is still a lien from when Bob financed it. So the bank could show up at your place with a superior lien that you really had no way of ever knowing about.

 

[MORRISONSTEEL]

Ag blanket liens must be searched by ss# and/or tax id but more importantly ss#. Large Ag dealerships can do this for you, it is not free, but less expensive than losing your tractor.

 

[MORRISONSTEEL]

From Other thread on this subject.

"in 2006 I bought a john deere tractor and loader from a local dealer.a few months rocked on and the dealer called wanting to pick up my tractor immediately for warranty service they said on the front axle.they came and got it the next day and kept it a couple days.i got it back and it was all cleaned up.came home a couple days later and a john deere investigator had been at my house and left a card and a note instructing me to call him.well apparently this dealer was selling tractors and not paying john deere for them.the dealer got wind that john deere was coming in to check his inventory,so he had to round up a few tractors to put back on his lot.a guy I work for said they also came and got his for a few days and brought it back all cleaned up.the investigator wouldn't tell me much about the dealer,my first response to him was I wrote a check for the tractor to the dealer and had all the proof of where I did.the dealer went out of business a little while later.the other local deere dealer got all his inventory and he had several brand new lawn mowers in crates that was several years old.i was sweating for a little while though when I seen that an investigator had been here."

If it is a large amount of money ALWAYS GET THE PAPERWORK. Most dealers have leins on their inventory. Selling equipment without clear title is criminal. Manufacturers will go after the dealer both civil and criminal. With no proof of purchase or unreasonable price you could be investigated or criminally charged. It is rare.

All of the paperwork in the world will not tell you that the dealer tried to trick the auditor into thinking that the machine was not sold. When the auditor shows up once a month or so to count un-settled machines and finds one missing then the dealer has to pay for it immediately. So the dealer was attempting to extend their terms and sounds like they got caught which probably help lead to their demise (if they are doing that they have other problems). Really the only thing to check (with another dealer or re-seller that has access to something like iron solutions valuation program) is to verify the machine was settled to you and on the appropriate dates with correct warranty, etc. You might have gotten a little more warranty out of the deal.....and you have all of the appropriate paperwork for recourse.

 

[PILOON]

Once knew a girl that purchased a used VW that after 3 months or so was repossessed as there was an outstanding lien on it.
Know of a Kubota that was declared stolen, then hidden for a while and sold to an unsuspecting buyer.
Scams will probably always exist, and more so with the internet.

 

[kthompson]

I know a person who was stealing equipment and selling it. He was doing this while working for a major local dealer who has a good reputation and they fired him not sure the details but he went back to stealing and selling. Caught big time and all he got was PROBATION. He had a few people working for him and he got probation. He was selling low and that tipped some on what he was doing. The best tips I can give you is know the seller. If buying from a dealer finance it with their lender. Even if you could pay cash at least finance enough they will do the background checking.

 

[EddieWalker]

Can't help with the question on liens, but I'll add to your torment with something I learned from my local Case Dealer. My dozer had an issue with one of it's hydraulic pumps that only appeared after it was warmed up. They do not fix these things, they only replace them on my particular dozer. It might be different on other models, but I honestly don't know. The replacement part was $25,000 plus labor. I have three pumps, so there is the potential that eventually, I'll need all three replaced.

The dealer told me to take it to the auction and let somebody else deal with it. That's what they do, and what they recommend to their clients when they have a repair that is more expensive then it's worth.

A contractor that I know bought a low hour John Deere 710 loader backhoe at auction with low hours for a fair price. Once he started using it, he felt it was under powered and burning a lot of fuel and oil. His mechanic found that the injector was plugged with a BB so you wouldn't notice the problem at idle, and when not under any load. He had to have the entire engine rebuilt.

Auctions are where people sell stuff that you cannot go back to and complain about.

 

[CincyFlyer]

Wut?

Explain how brand new equipment, bought from a dealer, can have lien problems? I don't see how that's possible.

Much of the stuff on dealer's floors is "floor planned", that is, mortgaged to the bank. More than one dealer has collected the $$ and not paid off the floor plan.

 

[CincyFlyer]

Once knew a girl that purchased a used VW that after 3 months or so was repossessed as there was an outstanding lien on it.
Know of a Kubota that was declared stolen, then hidden for a while and sold to an unsuspecting buyer.
Scams will probably always exist, and more so with the internet.

In Ohio, USA, getting a title transferred is rather difficult, unless the title is clear. So it would become apparent immediately if there was a lien.

 

[Steppenwolfe]

Can't help with the question on liens, but I'll add to your torment with something I learned from my local Case Dealer. My dozer had an issue with one of it's hydraulic pumps that only appeared after it was warmed up. They do not fix these things, they only replace them on my particular dozer. It might be different on other models, but I honestly don't know. The replacement part was $25,000 plus labor. I have three pumps, so there is the potential that eventually, I'll need all three replaced.

The dealer told me to take it to the auction and let somebody else deal with it. That's what they do, and what they recommend to their clients when they have a repair that is more expensive then it's worth.

A contractor that I know bought a low hour John Deere 710 loader backhoe at auction with low hours for a fair price. Once he started using it, he felt it was under powered and burning a lot of fuel and oil. His mechanic found that the injector was plugged with a BB so you wouldn't notice the problem at idle, and when not under any load. He had to have the entire engine rebuilt.

Auctions are where people sell stuff that you cannot go back to and complain about.

Wow... buyer beware. People who cheat and steal from others should be used for target practice...

 

[69raptor]

There is some good people left on the planet. I'm one. Ive have financed many things and sold them also. And i always pay them off when i tell the people thats what I'm doing. Just saying. I could sleep at nite if i did that to some one. Plus that feeling when you buy something new would be gone.. CARMA

 

[Rock Crawler]

When we bought our used BX25D a few months ago from an estate we got a letter from Kubota financing written to the deceased (obviously prior to his passing)stating that he had satisfied the loan requirements. This was a photocopy that was included to us with the manual and copy of the original purchase invoice from the selling dealer to the deceased. So we put it all in a file and will pas it on the next owner so that he holds proof from that original buyer and finance company stating that the machine was clear. We paid cash, so there is nothing for proof I guess.... But we will type up a letter and we as well as the new buyer will sign/date it and he will keep that. At least then he has my signature stating that I sold him the equipment and that there is no outstanding loan tied to this equipment.