Lifespan of a fencepost?

[clemsonfor]

Landscape timbers here are made from Aspen which is very non decay resistance (rots quickly) They are the cores from making aspen plywood and that is why they are cheap. Other areas might have pine landscale timbers.

There a regional item.
Here in the south they are made from southern yellow pine. There the cores from peeler logs that are either cut with a flat side or used as a round core for those round 4" posts.

 

[clemsonfor]

When you replace the posts, check the top and/or bottoms if you can. All of the PT wood I have ever bought from Lowes, HD or better yet, directly from a PT company, as a label stabled to the end of the lumber. You might find the label in the post hole if you reuse the holes. The label has the PT treatment content. My guess would be that the wood used was treated at .20ish PCF and not rated for ground contact. The posts should be at least .40ish PCF or higher.

We have lots of Red Ceder here and I see it used for fence posts and even pole barns. The stuff rots out pretty quickly from what I can tell though it takes a good decade or two before the fence or barn completely fails. We looked at some property that had been owned by one family since the late 1800s. The guy selling was the last surviving sibling who had been born in the farm house his dad built in the early 1920's. They had numerous out buildings and barns using rock foundations and Red Ceder sill beams. Those barns were still in great shape because the ceder was not touching the ground. The rocks and ceder where found on the place.

Later,
Dan

Dan, Are you from that area of NC? Im only asking as those sheds may be older than you think. I have my family farm in south lancaster county SC. Its basically the same area that you are referring to , same climate and soils.

My point is this i personally know there is a carshed on this property that was built with red cedar posts and roughcut pine. There are pictures of my dad in what i know is the late 50's or early 60's with that shed in view in them. It still stands to this day. The tin leaks, half the siding and floor of one side has been eaten by ants/termites but the posts are stong, not leaning and still holding the shed up.

 

[dmccarty]

Dan, Are you from that area of NC? Im only asking as those sheds may be older than you think. I have my family farm in south lancaster county SC. Its basically the same area that you are referring to , same climate and soils.
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I have to guess on the ages of some of the fences and barns but my neighbors where in bad shape at about 20 years old. I have seen a quite a few small cedar pole barns that are sharply leaning or have collapsed. I see a number of ceder fence posts that are in bad shape. I have no way of really knowing the age of many of the fences and barns. The fences do not look that old based on the wire used.

On the other hand, there is a feed store in town that has cedar columns holding up the floor. That building is very old. My guess is that the building roof keeps the ground under and around the structure dry which has prevent the posts from rotting. That building is an exception though. Red Ceder, in the ground, does not seem to last long in my area.

The ground here is heavy icky clay with rock and decomposing rock 20-30 inches below grade. My guess is that the water held in that clay rots out the wood. Though the posts, fence or building, all seem to end of up leaning with rot at the grade line.

I would love to use Red Ceder as posts since we have tons of the stuff. I might use it for something temporary but I would use PT at .40 PCF or better for anything I wanted permanent.

Later,
Dan

 

[clemsonfor]

I have to guess on the ages of some of the fences and barns but my neighbors where in bad shape at about 20 years old. I have seen a quite a few small cedar pole barns that are sharply leaning or have collapsed. I see a number of ceder fence posts that are in bad shape. I have no way of really knowing the age of many of the fences and barns. The fences do not look that old based on the wire used.

On the other hand, there is a feed store in town that has cedar columns holding up the floor. That building is very old. My guess is that the building roof keeps the ground under and around the structure dry which has prevent the posts from rotting. That building is an exception though. Red Ceder, in the ground, does not seem to last long in my area.

The ground here is heavy icky clay with rock and decomposing rock 20-30 inches below grade. My guess is that the water held in that clay rots out the wood. Though the posts, fence or building, all seem to end of up leaning with rot at the grade line.

I would love to use Red Ceder as posts since we have tons of the stuff. I might use it for something temporary but I would use PT at .40 PCF or better for anything I wanted permanent.

Later,
Dan

Your dirt is just like mine on the farm. Depending on where you are you can have a sandyred clay load, just red clay and there is decomposing granite everywhere. The sap wood is what rots fast in like a year or so. If this is a large part of the tree it will loosen in the hole and cause it to fall over. If you trim the white off and just leave the red like someone mentioned and you still have at least 6"s i would say they should last 50 years easy, red cedar is very rot resistant even in the ground.

The wood shed on the property has been torn down several years ago due to post rot and leaning nature of it. The carshed, chicken house and cow loading shed/storage sheds are still in great shape, minus all the rotted boards used for flooring and siding that were just rough cut green pine and never treated.

These pictures show the carshed i am talking about. To the left in the picture is a workshop/room that is about 6 feet wide. The area to the right opens on the end and is just open. There is a floor on the left that is rotted and sagging. Many of the boards have weathered and broken off or are just very thin as the termites have eaten about half of them, esp on the back side where it is shaded.

 

[dmccarty]

Your dirt is just like mine on the farm. Depending on where you are you can have a sandyred clay load, just red clay and there is decomposing granite everywhere. The sap wood is what rots fast in like a year or so. If this is a large part of the tree it will loosen in the hole and cause it to fall over. If you trim the white off and just leave the red like someone mentioned and you still have at least 6"s i would say they should last 50 years easy, red cedar is very rot resistant even in the ground.
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I have some big ceders that are down but if I trimmed off the outer wood, I do not think I would have six inches of wood. That would work for a fence though. The normal/average sized trees I have are only 3-4 inches in diameter. This is what I see people using for fence posts and those fences are either falling down or looking like they are about to fall.

When DOT pays for a fence in my area they are built right. Those fences are old but still perfect decades after installation.

I would only use ceder if I had no other choice and then only in a fence. I have seen it work, but I have seen it fail, more than work.

Later,
Dan

 

[clemsonfor]

I have some big ceders that are down but if I trimmed off the outer wood, I do not think I would have six inches of wood. That would work for a fence though. The normal/average sized trees I have are only 3-4 inches in diameter. This is what I see people using for fence posts and those fences are either falling down or looking like they are about to fall.

When DOT pays for a fence in my area they are built right. Those fences are old but still perfect decades after installation.

I would only use ceder if I had no other choice and then only in a fence. I have seen it work, but I have seen it fail, more than work.

Later,
Dan

OK you hit the problem on the head. a 3-4 inch tree has very little hear-wood, which is the only part that is really naturally disease and rot resistant.

In my pics you can see some of these posts look like they are 5-6"s at ground level some maybe pushing 10". NONE of these were trimmed though. Im sure rotting of the edges has occured but this shed is still very solid as the posts and framing are still wwell intacted.

 

[56FordGuy]

I have a few extra posts from when the fence was built. I'll have to check them and see if there's a tag on them anywhere.

My current plan is to set T posts along my existing fenceposts, and attach the fence to them. I'd rather have wood posts, but I don't think I can get an auger that close to the fence without damaging the fence. I would probably need to take the whole thing down and start over.

 

[JimRB]

I use a Shaver post driver when I installed my PT 4x4 posts. I think they were .40 CCA back 13 years ago. Not sure if you could pound post next to an existing fence. No tposts allowed at our place.

 

[56FordGuy]

I use a Shaver post driver when I installed my PT 4x4 posts. I think they were .40 CCA back 13 years ago. Not sure if you could pound post next to an existing fence. No tposts allowed at our place.

I'll have to check on the Shaver post driver, not familiar with it.

I know when the contractor originally began our fence, he tried using a post driver on a skid steer and found it didn't work very well due the the amount of rock we have. I'm afraid most hydraulic post drivers would have the same problem.

 

[seymojo536]

I have a few extra posts from when the fence was built. I'll have to check them and see if there's a tag on them anywhere.

My current plan is to set T posts along my existing fenceposts, and attach the fence to them. I'd rather have wood posts, but I don't think I can get an auger that close to the fence without damaging the fence. I would probably need to take the whole thing down and start over.

You can drill next to the fence, it takes some planning and effort. First remove all the staples/ties from the section you need to replace. Make or buy a fence stretcher bar, attach it to the fence near wear you want to put the post. With another vehicle, pull the fence away from the spot a couple of feet. Watch the tension on the fence, you should be able to feel if you're pulling too much. Now you can sneak in and pull the old and pop in the new.