Lithium battery with an SLA charger

[3Ts]

Neighbor has an electric start portable generator (about 10kw) with a lithium battery. It sits for long periods of time without exercise and the battery is usually dead when she needs it to run. I take my SLA battery over when I get a call to help out and the generator starts up and runs fine. I don't know if her generator recharges the battery while running or not. I put a noco charger designed for installation in a car's engine compartment on it to keep it charged (before I found out it was a lithium battery as there are no labels on it). The battery was dead again (0.2 volts) today after about 3 weeks of being installed which is when I found out it was a lithium battery. I do not know the charge state of the battery when it was installed. All my general purpose chargers are for SLA. What I've read is that SLA chargers and Lithium batteries are not compatible. So, my questions are:
1- Does a portable generator recharge it's battery? Note, the generator manual specifies a 17 AH lead acid battery OR a 1.6 AH Lithium battery.
2- Will a SLA charger kill a Lithium battery?
3- Is there something I'm missing that is killing the batteries?

I'm inclined to get a SLA battery for her and see how that performs. I use the same setup with batteries that I have but mine are all SLA and I don't have any problem with them.

 

[grsthegreat]

Portable generators with elect start generally come with a separate battery charger. Most that i see are small glass mat type batteries. I dont recall seing lithium on them. Lithium do require a different charge logarithm. My Noco chargers, both the genius 10 and the Genius 1 have a lithium setting.

 

[ponytug]

Neighbor has an electric start portable generator (about 10kw) with a lithium battery. It sits for long periods of time without exercise and the battery is usually dead when she needs it to run. I take my SLA battery over when I get a call to help out and the generator starts up and runs fine. I don't know if her generator recharges the battery while running or not. I put a noco charger designed for installation in a car's engine compartment on it to keep it charged (before I found out it was a lithium battery as there are no labels on it). The battery was dead again (0.2 volts) today after about 3 weeks of being installed which is when I found out it was a lithium battery. I do not know the charge state of the battery when it was installed. All my general purpose chargers are for SLA. What I've read is that SLA chargers and Lithium batteries are not compatible. So, my questions are:
1- Does a portable generator recharge it's battery? Note, the generator manual specifies a 17 AH lead acid battery OR a 1.6 AH Lithium battery.
2- Will a SLA charger kill a Lithium battery?
3- Is there something I'm missing that is killing the batteries?

I'm inclined to get a SLA battery for her and see how that performs. I use the same setup with batteries that I have but mine are all SLA and I don't have any problem with them.

I have one portable generator that does recharge its battery, and one electric start portable that can't (no method of generating DC).

My generator that can recharge has a 100A disconnect on the positive lead to stop parasitic drains, which is I suspect part of your neighbor's problem.

With regards to your questions;
1) It is suspicious to me that the specifications on the two batteries are so different. Something isn't right. I would switch to the larger SLA.
2) SLA chargers won't get a lithium battery anywhere close to charged, hence some of my concern with question #1.
3) Probably. My bet would be on some electronics that stay on like a Bluetooth or remote control option that is on while the generator is parked, but even dirt on the battery or the start switch can be enough.

I've used this type of disconnect, but not this brand;

Amazon.com

If the generator sits outside, I'd recommend a solar charger, but I suspect that it gets stored indoors. I'm not wild about leaving trickle chargers hooked up to generator batteries, given the fuel on board, but that may just be me.

Out of curiosity, what brand and size is the generator?

All the best,

Peter

 

[LittleBill21]

an sla charger will most certainly get a lithium battery over 90% charged. that said, there is almost 0 chance its lithium based. and at .2v its a dead battery anyway. its a maintenance free lead acid or agm battery if i had to guess. would love a photo.

 

[RjCorazza]

When I was using a gas generator for backup I gave up on SLA (or any other type) batteries. I ended up securing the battery cables in a somewhat accessable location without a battery, then just clamped on a small jumpstart battery when I wanted to start the generator.
I do have a 3500w inverter generator with an SLA battery that is usually on a Battery Minder.
I don't know a whole lot about lithium ion batteries, other than failed circuitry or overcharging can cause catastrophic fires.

 

[LittleBill21]

When I was using a gas generator for backup I gave up on SLA (or any other type) batteries. I ended up securing the battery cables in a somewhat accessable location without a battery, then just clamped on a small jumpstart battery when I wanted to start the generator.
I do have a 3500w inverter generator with an SLA battery that is usually on a Battery Minder.
I don't know a whole lot about lithium ion batteries, other than failed circuitry or overcharging can cause catastrophic fires.

this is what I do as well, i have a lithium jump pack, i just hook directly to start the generator and move on, no need for another battery charger or maintenance

 

[3Ts]

Here's some pictures of her installation. Note, this is not what I'm comfortable with, but her husband passed away a few months ago and several of the neighbors and myself are working on getting her place setup so she can manage it on her own. One piece at a time.

Here's the control panel. It has a DC output, but not sure whether that powers the battery or whether the battery has to be plugged into it via a special cable.

Here's how it connects to the main breaker panel. Yes, that's a suicide cord, and there is no generator lockout. I've pulled out the "starting battery" and have my battery connected in its place. There is a NOCO battery charger in the box on the pole with the DC connection running to the battery. It really needs to be up off the ground about 8" - 12" because it's covered in dirt/sand that high up.

Here's the only label on the battery. I assumed it is the company logo. I've brushed off most of the sand/dirt prior to the picture.

And the only other "writing" on the battery that I could see.

And the battery is very light, as if there is nothing in it. I'm really tempted to cut it open to see what is in it, but messing with lithium is not my idea of fun or even something I want to do, but I'd really like to know if there is anything inside of it.

 

[LittleBill21]

photo's are too small, can't zoom them

 

[RjCorazza]

Back feeding with suicide cords generates some lively discussions. I will only say that I would not be involved with someone else running this setup, regardless of their knowledge or experience. Consider setting her up with proper wiring and a lockout.

 

[grsthegreat]

If you look at the LivEN website, the chargers they show are pretty heavy duty. Not some walmart charger. I also wont work on any suicide cord job, especially with an elderly client. I had one customer who related how his dad, an ex electrician, forgot to switch off the main on a back fed gen system, and when power was restored grenaded the generator. And this was a so called trained individual who thought he knew how to do it safely. I mean seriously, a cheap interlock is like $69.00