Little barn build in progress, couple questions

[deezler]

Hi all,

If there's one thing I've learned from this section of the forum, it's that there are a LOT of different ways to build a shed/barn. This is my first attempt at building anything substantial. While it's been a lot of fun thus far, my body is a wreck after 3 days on the job, haha!

My shed will be:
- 23x20 feet (14x20 being the "primary" section with larger 4x6 posts)
- Posts sitting atop concrete footers, but not IN concrete. Wanted them removable if need be.
- dirt floor. Please don't try to convince me to go with concrete. Multiple reasons why I can't. Just can't. Dirt is ok with me, and my soil is almost pure sand - very well draining and mostly inert.
- As cheap as possible. Using salvaged (but quite new) 2x4s and OSB sheets. Trying to keep the total lumber expense under $1k. Doors, fasteners and other hardware may end up pushing another 3-400.

Since the depth of experience in pole-building construction is so deep on this forum, I wanted to ask a couple of things.

- How slowly can I finish this building without worrying about the un-treated lumber? Obviously I am using treated lumber for the posts, anything touching the ground, and any fascias being left exposed to the elements. But the whole interior is untreated. Will it get brittle and warpy if left exposed to the elements for long? Do I have just a couple weeks to get it covered up? A couple months? A year? (The goal is to get it all enclosed and lock-able before the snow flies)

- How overboard does everyone like to go with the fasteners? Right now everything is mostly just tacked together with 16p nails. I definitely plan to go back and add lag bolts and carriage bolts to secure all the major structural connections. But it's hard to know where to stop with this - I could keep add simpson plates and lag bolts way past what's necessary.

- How deep does the "rat wall" need to be below grade? A fully submerged 2x12, or does a simple 2x6 suffice?

- Anyone see anything obviously wrong thus far?

Thanks.

 

[Bill Guenthner]

I've used untreated 2x4's that I had stacked off the ground outside for a year or more with no problems. I have some stairs on an outbuilding where I used untreated lumber for treads intending to replace them when the project was completed. They've been there almost 3 years and are used regularly and still very solid. They are however painted with red barn stain. The biggest problem I have with untreated lumber is carpenter bees, even after the walls are up. I've found that an occasional bug bomb in the barn keeps them away.

 

[KennyG]

I wouldn't do it myself, but I've seen framed structures sit for a year or more before finishing with no apparent problems. Just make sure nothing stays wet. OSB I'd be a little more concerned about. It is "exposure rated" but I don't like to let it get rained on for fear it will warp.

For a building this size, just nail it well and don't worry about lag bolts etc. My pole barn is all nailed and it's been standing for over 30 years.

 

[deezler]

Alright, thanks guys. Guess I will not worry too much about taking a vacation before I get the barn roof on.

Kenny, not sure I can live with just nailing... I am kind of OCD with getting things fastened together. Haha.

 

[KennyG]

Alright, thanks guys. Guess I will not worry too much about taking a vacation before I get the barn roof on.

Kenny, not sure I can live with just nailing... I am kind of OCD with getting things fastened together. Haha.

I'm kind of that way too, but think about the load direction. In shear (perpendicular to the nail) it's almost impossible for a nail to fail. If the force is parallel (pull out), screws work a lot better. If you look at normal framing, almost all the load on fasteners is shear. If you look at metal siding or roofing or drywall, it's a different story which is why screws are recommended.

 

[tcreeley]

It is nice to get it covered- but ok if not. Try to get the rafters up, some cross pieces or sheathed and nail a tarp over it for the winter. It will do fine for the winter.\-if screwing, use lag or carriage bolts/nut
avoid using heavy long drywall screws, even if treated for exposure. They are brittle and will snap under stress.

For nailing, hangers + nailer 3.5", or better yet real 16 penny and 20 penny nails. Just change the angle as you put each nail in- holds great. For a nailer get treated nails (glue).

 

[nybirdman]

I like to use screws myself on projects.Nail guns are great for this type of project.They have ones that run on gas cartridges.
The Amish around here laugh at us;they hammer everything,of course they don't have to follow any building codes like us English.

 

[deezler]

More thanks.

Yeah I have thought about the load directions and fastener capabilities and whatnot. Not worried about the nails failing, since they are strong, especially in shear. And also so dang easy to pound in and hold things together. But I do worry a bit about them loosening up over time and allowing boards to warp and pull apart, even if just slightly. Hence I'll keep the nails that are already pounded in and add a lag bolt or two at each major interface. That's my current thinking, anyway.

Definitely trying to get it done by snow season, my tractor lives outside right now....

 

[ENG18LT]

Just a quick thought, if you posts are treated you may need galvanized nails. The chemicals cause premature failure of non-galvanized metals, unless it is stainless. Deck screws are ok for treated lumber, but at $35 for 5lbs that will get expensive. You can get galvanized nails for air nailers at any lumber yard. This also goes for any metal against or into treated lumber. Just something to think about. Nice pictures by the way.

 

[deezler]

Yep, using galvanized nails, lag bolts and washers, thanks though.

Barn is on hold for a week or two; hopefully I'll get some pics of progress up after then.