Little Help With 4410 Axle Seal Repair

[Wherewolf]

I use a product called PB Blaster (you might already know about it)

PB Blaster Penetrating Catalyst, Loosen rusted bolts and fasteners

I find that spraying it on, then tapping extensively on the bolt and all around it - then let it SIT - 24 hours.(You can spray it a few more times and tap)....then try to work it out - haven't had a case yet where I couldn't remove one - sometimes you do need heat however....

Wherewolf

 

[VTHokieJD]

Does anyone have another idea on getting the headless bolt out? Maybe wax instead of penetrating oil?

If he only broke the head off, you may be able to get the hub off leaving the stud in place (just try to slowly bring the hub off straight). Since the hub isn't the threaded part, you may be left with the stud (depending on how much was broke off) in the flange after the hub is off. Then I would definitely spray it with PB Blaster or something similar, let it soak for a while, and then use a pair of vise grips to twist it out. Hope that makes sense!

 

[browns40]

Don't want to muddle up the discussion any...

But when I had my front seal trouble I found it wasn't flexible RTV, but hard red plastic (i.e. threadlock compound) formed between the pieces... I set the RTV I assumed I'd need aside & went & got threadlock to put it back together...

Did I get some freak assembly? Has everyone found flexible RTV type compounds in there?

I put it back together with the threadlock painted in between, as I found it... no issues so far...

 

[VTHokieJD]

I'll look at mine with a little more detail tomorrow. After I got the hub off, I briefly looked everything over and set it back on since I didn't have the seal yet and didn't want to leave it off and expose the inners to dirt/dust while waiting for the part. Mine looked like it was put together with a rubbery rtv sealant, purple in color. But I didn't attempt to take it off yet, so I'll check it out tomorrow and let you know what mine was.

 

[CurlyDave]

Well a looked at the situation a little more tonight. Just a few minutes, in the dark, with a flashlight.

1. Bob thinks there was Locktite on the bolts, probably true.

2. We compared the head & broken section of the bolt with the thickness of the hub, and the bolt broke off almost at the base of the hub. This means removal of the hub will be easy, but I am really worried about getting the broken section of the bolt out of the housing. There is nothing to grab, so it looks like easy-out time, and I have never had a lot of success with drilling a hole in a broken bolt.

Trying to get the hole anywhere near centered is very difficult. The broken section is never flat, and it is work-hardened to the point where getting the drill bit to bite into it before the bit has walked over the the edge of the bolt is very challenging.

Any good ideas?

 

[Jim_Fisher]

Well a looked at the situation a little more tonight. Just a few minutes, in the dark, with a flashlight.

1. Bob thinks there was Locktite on the bolts, probably true.

2. We compared the head & broken section of the bolt with the thickness of the hub, and the bolt broke off almost at the base of the hub. This means removal of the hub will be easy, but I am really worried about getting the broken section of the bolt out of the housing. There is nothing to grab, so it looks like easy-out time, and I have never had a lot of success with drilling a hole in a broken bolt.

Trying to get the hole anywhere near centered is very difficult. The broken section is never flat, and it is work-hardened to the point where getting the drill bit to bite into it before the bit has walked over the the edge of the bolt is very challenging.

Any good ideas?

I've had good results drilling out broken bolts with a left hand drill bit. A carbide burr with a spherical head can be used first to dish the end of the bolt to help with the walking issue. Use a good penetrating oil (Kroil or PB Blaster or whatever your favorite is) both before and during the drilling process. In many cases the drilling will back the bolt out.

 

[flyngti]

Trying to get the hole anywhere near centered is very difficult. The broken section is never flat, and it is work-hardened to the point where getting the drill bit to bite into it before the bit has walked over the the edge of the bolt is very challenging.

Any good ideas?

Before you start drilling, get a good center punch and put a big dimple in the middle of the broken bolt. Line it up the best you can and whack the punch with a hammer. You may have to do it a few times to get a dimple, but it will make drilling much easier. If your drill still wanders, stop and use the punch again to get a bigger dimple.

As jim_fisher says, a left handed drill bit is also helpful. I have found that the heat generated by the drilling along with the drill turning counter-clockwise will sometimes back out the broken bolt without needing to drill out the entire thing.

 

[VTHokieJD]

Just as an update:

Browns40 is correct. Its not an RTV sealant, is more of a harder plastic type sealant such as loctite. Its called casing sealant or gasket maker. My mechanic friend showed it to me.. he had some made by loctite and goodwrench.

I got my seal from JD, about $20 and had to use a press to get the shaft out. Here is a link to some pics and more info:
JD_4410_MFWD_Axle

I'm going to look for a sealed bearing to replace the open design bearing (for the outer bearing). Hopefully, I find something and then this will act as a seal in itself. Also noticed what looked to be fatigue and a stress crack that went almost all the way around the axle shaft. This could also help cause the seal to fail prematurely. CurlyDave, let me know if you see anything similar on your neighbors. I circled the areas I'm referring to in yellow on the link to my webpage above.

 

[AKfish]

Good post! Great detail and it just warms my DIYer heart!

Funny squiggle where the suspected crack may be... could it be poor machining?

I've never seen cracks like that --- with rounded loops (squiggles). But the closeups are a bit out of focus.

AKfish

 

[CurlyDave]

What a great thread.

Right now I am in CA getting my old house ready to sell.

I will probably get to the tractor in about two weeks.

I will post on this thread again when I get to doing something.