Live PTO vs. Independent

[Blue Mule]

I called my dealer locally to inquire about these Kioti tractors. I started off by asking if they had a CK4010SE in stock. He immediately asked me what it was that I wanted that pushed me toward the SE. He said almost everything on the SE can be added later if I want, but by going SE now it'll cost around $2k more money. However, one thing I forgot to mention to him is that I prefer independent PTO. That's something that I'm quite sure can not be added later. Kioti's website shows that the SE models get independent PTO, but the standard models don't.

Can anyone here explain how a live PTO works when paired with a hydro trans?

 

[Cycledude]

What is the reason for not wanting live PTO ?
Live PTO should work the same no mater what kind of transmission.

 

[TMGT]

I called my dealer locally to inquire about these Kioti tractors. I started off by asking if they had a CK4010SE in stock. He immediately asked me what it was that I wanted that pushed me toward the SE. He said almost everything on the SE can be added later if I want, but by going SE now it'll cost around $2k more money. However, one thing I forgot to mention to him is that I prefer independent PTO. That's something that I'm quite sure can not be added later. Kioti's website shows that the SE models get independent PTO, but the standard models don't.

Can anyone here explain how a live PTO works when paired with a hydro trans?

If Kioti is using the same system as my old Kubota b2620, the clutch for the pto is a single stage (thats what the Kioti spec sheet says also) which mean you will lose drive whenever the clutch pedal is depressed as it will disengage the hst pump as well.
You will need to use the clutch to start/stop the pto (there will be a separate lever to put the pto in neutral).

Its not a big deal, depending on what your uses are, as the hst will allow you to vary speed, stop/start without having to clutch.

 

[MichiganIron]

I called my dealer locally to inquire about these Kioti tractors. I started off by asking if they had a CK4010SE in stock. He immediately asked me what it was that I wanted that pushed me toward the SE. He said almost everything on the SE can be added later if I want, but by going SE now it'll cost around $2k more money. However, one thing I forgot to mention to him is that I prefer independent PTO. That's something that I'm quite sure can not be added later. Kioti's website shows that the SE models get independent PTO, but the standard models don't.

Can anyone here explain how a live PTO works when paired with a hydro trans?

Live PTO Refers to a Transmission Clutch that allows the operator to stop the movement of the tractor with the PTO Continuing to run. This is accomplished with a 2-Stage Clutch, the first stage controls the tractor travel, the second stage controls the PTO. In other words, if you depress the clutch "half way", the tractor travel stops and the PTO continues to run.

Independent PTO refers to an independent drive system for the PTO. It is independent from the tractor travel completely. This is accomplished in the KIOTI Tractors with an electric-over-hydraulic clutch pack. The PTO can be engaged and disengaged independent from the tractor travel.

The standard KIOTI CK2610/CK3510/CK4010 models use the Live PTO with a dual stage clutch. The CK10SE Series have the Independent PTO with Electric-over-Hydraulic engagement. This cannot be added to the standard CK10 Series. Only the CX2510 has a Transmission PTO in the "Gear" model. Hydrostatic Tractors all have Live PTO's. since the tractor travel can be stopped with the Hydro Pedal without stopping the PTO.

Hope this helps...

 

[ptsg]

With the Independent PTO, the one that uses a electric-over-hydraulic clutch pack instead of a dual disc clutch, you'll get two modes.

One mode is fully independent and always On once you turn the switch, often called Manual or Independent .

The other mode, the PTO will turn off automatically once the 3 pt is at max height or once the clutch pedal is pressed. Usually called Auto on the switch.

With this style of PTO, there is usually spring actuated brake. Once the PTO is off, it will brake the PTO.

I use the Auto mode all the time with the tiller. At the end of the row, I just lift the 3 pt, it will stop the PTO automatically, turn around, lower the 3 pt and it'll turn on the PTO again. I don't recommend using with high speed attachments like a mower, flail, etc because the momentum of the mower will increase the wear on the PTO brake every time it turns Off and On.

 

[Blue Mule]

Live PTO Refers to a Transmission Clutch that allows the operator to stop the movement of the tractor with the PTO Continuing to run. This is accomplished with a 2-Stage Clutch, the first stage controls the tractor travel, the second stage controls the PTO. In other words, if you depress the clutch "half way", the tractor travel stops and the PTO continues to run.

Independent PTO refers to an independent drive system for the PTO. It is independent from the tractor travel completely. This is accomplished in the KIOTI Tractors with an electric-over-hydraulic clutch pack. The PTO can be engaged and disengaged independent from the tractor travel.

The standard KIOTI CK2610/CK3510/CK4010 models use the Live PTO with a dual stage clutch. The CK10SE Series have the Independent PTO with Electric-over-Hydraulic engagement. This cannot be added to the standard CK10 Series. Only the CX2510 has a Transmission PTO in the "Gear" model. Hydrostatic Tractors all have Live PTO's. since the tractor travel can be stopped with the Hydro Pedal without stopping the PTO.

Hope this helps...

That's not what the specifications show on the Kioti website. They show ALL SE models to have independent PTO, while ALL standard models to have live PTO, regardless of transmission options.

I understand how they work, and I like independent operation better, but my question was basically how does a live PTO and hydro trans. blend together on the standard models? I haven't seen that combo on a tractor before. There is no clutch, so why won't the PTO continue to run regardless of direction of travel or stoppage?

 

[TMGT]

That's not what the specifications show on the Kioti website. They show ALL SE models to have independent PTO, while ALL standard models to have live PTO, regardless of transmission options.

I understand how they work, and I like independent operation better, but my question was basically how does a live PTO and hydro trans. blend together on the standard models? I haven't seen that combo on a tractor before. There is no clutch, so why won't the PTO continue to run regardless of direction of travel or stoppage?

I'm pretty sure the std. CK4010 has a clutch pedal.

This clutch will disconnect the entire driveline from the engine, including the hst pump.

I don't believe the hst model gets a 2 stage clutch as its not necessary.

Having had both independent isn't really a game changers except for a few pto implement that you might want to be able to turn on and off while traveling.

The regular clutch is nice for heavy inertia equipment like chippers and large rotary cutters as you can "ease" into the engagement better.

 

[BrkMstr]

That's not what the specifications show on the Kioti website. They show ALL SE models to have independent PTO, while ALL standard models to have live PTO, regardless of transmission options.

I understand how they work, and I like independent operation better, but my question was basically how does a live PTO and hydro trans. blend together on the standard models? I haven't seen that combo on a tractor before. There is no clutch, so why won't the PTO continue to run regardless of direction of travel or stoppage?

The CK's have a clutch the CKSE's do not, I had use of a CKHST with clutch prior to getting my CKHSTSE, at first it seemed strange there was no clutch, but once you start using it you quickly find the value of the independent.

 

[pcustoms]

I would ask the dealer for a quote on the SE upgrades (time and materials) as I bet they cost a lot more then $2k to add after the fact.

From memory here's what the SE has:

Better seat
Mirrors
Better 3 point arms
Tilt steering
Linked pedal

I know there's more.

 

[LD1]

I personally do not like the newer tractors that have done away with the clutch.

I have a MX5100....and it is listed as an independent PTO. BUT I still have a clutch.

The clutch decouples the HST AND the PTO at the same time. However it is NOT required to engage the PTO.

BUT....on heavy startup loads like a rotary cutter, I DO like using the clutch. However that is not what makes me like having a clutch.

When bushhogging unfamiliar territory, and something back there starts making noise like running over a tire, cinder block, wadding up fence, etc....it is still my natural instinct/reaction to stomp on the clutch pedal rather than fumbling around to find the pto on/off lever.

If my options were live pto with a clutch vs independent without a clutch.....I'd take the clutch everyday. However on the kioti models it seems there may be more important differences to worry about when deciding standard vs se tractor