LK3054 Hydraulic ports

[Kiohio]

In an open hydraulic system I see no reason as to why this would overheat anything.
The oil is flowing in a continuos loop into the pump thru the hydraulic circuit (including Back hoe) back to the resivoir.
It will not be dead-heading against a relief valve at anytime.
If I am wrong please explain in depth.


KO

 

[Jim_in_Omaha]

Lablovers,
Have you got to use the backhoe yet with it hooked up to the remotes? I would wonder if the flow rate is too low making it very slow. When I looked at the all the oil lines and fittings during the installation I figured there would be too much back pressure to operate something like a backhoe. But I dont know for sure what the flow is going through the rear ports. Nothing in my service manual even talks about the aux hyd kit.

I have been studying the service manual regarding the valve block with the pressure, neutral, and tank ports, and the circuit on the loader valve. Probably what I'll do is hook it in series with the loader. I guess it wont matter if it goes in front or behind the loader valve.

The way my set up is there are 3 lines from the valve block to the loader valve. Pressure, neutral, tank. When the loader valve is centered (not doing anything) the fluid flows on through to the neutral line and back to the neutral port on the tractor valve block. From there it goes to the 3-point cylinder valve control circuit and the aux hyd. valve which I installed, then back to the tank. The tank port is a non pressure line that when you move the loader, the fluid coming back out of cylinders goes into that line with only the pressure of the cylinder forcing it back. As the pressure is applied to the appropriate end of a cylinder the other end's fluid must exit the cylinder which in this case goes to the tank port. The tank would be the transmission which is like 26 quarts. There is still some pressure going to the neutral line depending on how much the loader valve is using off the pressure side. This would allow you to still operate the 3 point/aux while the loader is working assuming that the loader valve is not taking all the flow off the pressure side.

Jon, I believe the service manual I got does state the current hydraulic GPM for the 2001-up LK3054. It is over 7 at the pump. I believe it says 6 at the valve block. The circuit in the valve prioritizes 1+ GPM to the power steering. Most of the BH's I've been researching are running around 3-5 GPM on the specs sheets for a 6 to 7 foot BH..

So what I was thinking that if I find a backhoe (still looking for something I can afford) I would tie it in series. Probably have a quick disconnect on the neutral side at the valve block and tie it in there with male/female high flow couplers. The place I got my lines for the tilt cylinder could make something and modify the hose for the loader valve.

But hey, if I'm wrong I want to hear someones 2 cents worth. I'm no hydraulic expert. I just want it to work with the least back pressure on the system.

thanks again.
Jim

 

[lablovers]

Jim,
We have spent about four hours working with the BH. Never noticed it working slow. If fact it takes a gentle touch to keep it from moving to fast. If someone is standing to close you can knock them pretty good with the swing arm before you realize how far it has traveled.

Maybe if I get time this weekend, I can trace the lines and see where they go. My biggest concern is using it for hours at a time in summer heat. It will be out of warranty by the time I get to heavy usage and don't want to burn anything up. I may also send an e-mail to Kioti to see what they have to say.

 

[MadReferee]

Jim,
just a little technical nit. What you are calling a neutral line is really what the industry calls a Power Beyond line. It keeps the flow going to the next valve down the line. Other than that, your explanation is correct.

However on most tractors the aux hydraulic block comes before the 3pt and would need a pressure inlet, power beyond outlet, and return to tank lines. The 3pt's outlet is usually plumbed internally back to the tank since it is last in line and therefore does not need a power beyout outlet.

 

[MadReferee]

Jim,
one more thing. I don't quite understand you concern about back pressure on the system. An open center system with a continuous running pump should normally have no back pressure. If you did the relief would be popping all the time. When this happens in the valve block, the relief will open and the oil will be directed back to the tank via the return to tank line. Now I can see where this could happen during normal use of the BH but it also occurs frequently when using the loader too.

If the circuit is plumbed correctly you should have no worries.

 

[Jim_in_Omaha]

Mad,

The neutral term is from the Kioti manuals. I figured it was the same thing as the power beyond. And yes the 3-pt and the aux. hyd. kit that I installed does exit into the tank (transmission) on this tractor.

The thing I'm wondering about is what lablover said his Bh is hooked up to the aux hyd ports on the back. It might work fine. I had thought about hooking something up like that then clipping the lever in the correct position to provide constant flow. If its safe, then it would sure make hooking of a BH easy.

thanks
Jim

 

[MadReferee]

<font color="blue"> The thing I'm wondering about is what lablover said his Bh is hooked up to the aux hyd ports on the back. It might work fine. I had thought about hooking something up like that then clipping the lever in the correct position to provide constant flow. If its safe, then it would sure make hooking of a BH easy.
</font> <font color="black">


I think it would depend on how the BH was plumbed and what kind of spool valve the remote is using. On the setups I have seen, the BH inlet connects directly to the loaders PB hose and the BH returns directly to tank, thus eliminating the aux hydraulics and 3pt from the circuit (ie. they no longer work).

The pressure loss thru the work port is minimal, 25-50 psi depending on the spool manufacturer, so if the plumbing is correct then it should work. The spool will treat the BH as it would any cylinder, high pressure in, return to tank out.

Just make sure you have the BH hoses connected correctly to the work port connectors. It will depend on which direction you are moving/tieing the lever. Reversing the hoses might cause serious problems.
</font>

 

[KiotiDave]

I hook up the backhoes in the same manner. It's like an electrical circuit, it provides the fluid and pressure to the hoe. The hoe directs it where it wants and the pressure valve on the hoe sets the pressure it wants to work at. The remotes in this case are nothing more than an on/off switch that can change the direction of the flow. You will get the same pressure and volume as you would if you tee off the tractor valve under the deck.
You are OK John. It should work great and easier to reach the quick connects also.
Dave G.

 

[lablovers]

I appreciate everyones imput. This is one reason these forums are such an asset. I did e-mail Kioti and received the following response.

The backhoe should have been set up so that it would run from the same hydraulic block as the loader. If installed this way, using the power beyond port, I would say that there should be no issues with overheating. The way the hydraulics are ran now should not cause problems, it is just not as convenient to operate. You really should have a rear auxiliary valve that has a detent position so that it is designed to lock into place automatically. The new XS models do not require a pump kit.

It looks like I will be able to sleep tonight. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[To20Chris]

I'm running a Rhino 65A backhoe on an LK3054 (2003 model). My dealer suggested a separate PTO pump instead of a rear remote. It looked like the cost was similar to that of installing a rear remote, and I ended up with an entire separate hydraulic system for the BH. The only drawback I see is that I don't have the rear remote to run other attachments, but for me this is not an issue. Admittedly, I did not price out the rear remote setup, so I would not be surprised if it did cost a bit more, but it would be small compared to the price of the BH.

At any rate, it works well, the power and speed seem good. Might be worth considering.