Llamas and alpacas

[Anonymous Poster]

Yes, that's clearly a concern, but I don't think this necessarily means that there can't be a viable fiber market here in the US.

First, note that there is a huge variation in fiber quality, both among animals and even from different parts of the same animal. I got an alpaca sweater from a place called Alpaca Pete's, an importer of Peruvian goods. It's wonderful (except the darned sleeves are a little short... a different body shape I guess), but no comparison to the alpaca garments I've felt that were made from the saddle area of better animals. I believe this better type of garment could and should sell for several times the prices you mentioned. I'm not saying there aren't quality animals in South America -- there absolutely are, I just mean to say that you would probably have to pay a lot more in South America for top quality. Also the South Americans have focused on white fiber for years, their reason being that it is the best color for dyeing. Naturally colored fiber is more valuable in the US and Europe.

Also, by way of example, the US buys plenty of beef from Argentina and Guatemala, but many raise it profitably here as well. If I remember correctly, ranchers get just a few cents per pound for beef, and once again you have to pay tens of thousands for good breeding stock.

Also, RichZ, if you're still reading this thread -- there are a number of people around me who support themselves fully or partially by selling alpacas. If the prices hold up, as they have since '84 when the animals were first imported, then it's plain thay they are an excellent investment -- think of a $20,000 that produces 50% females that are also worth $20,000, minus say $2,500 for a breeding fee and incidental costs. You'd be clearing maybe $6,000 a year on your $20,000 investment. Also the tax advantages are very appealing. One rancher I know is mostly a businessman. I know about how many animals he's moving, and he must be making well into six figures. The majority though seem to be folks who are happy with the lifestyle and don't strive to make a ton of money. Don't make any mistake though, it is horse trading, and you need to market successfully, especially to folks that don't already own alpacas.

But I'm not trying to change your mind, I just want to explain myself.

Incidentally I've had a couple of unique moments so far in this business. First, a fifty-ish ex-school teacher put her face right up to mine and gravely described to me the enormity of her alpaca's testicles, complete with hand gestures. I barely manged to choke back a serious Bevis and Butthead moment. Second, I was telling a friend about the $2,000-$3,000 studding fees, and he mulled that over for a moment and then asked me if they were looking for extra help. Ba-da-bing.

-Don

 

[MarkV]

Don,

As I said, I know not about Alpacas, and it sure sounds like you have done your homework. Please keep us up to date as you venture into the market. I sure do wish you the best, sounds great if you can get it rolling.

MarkV

 

[cowboydoc]

Here's the way these things go and you can hold me to it. You get a rare commodity for your area. You come up with all kinds of claims about what this commodity can be used for and how much money it can make. Everyone wants one because noone has one. You make these claims, prospectus and such because these are the best and greatest ones. Now you inflate the value of them to be something that is really nothing more than inflated value. You get a bunch of people to believe that your claims are really true and then they buy into the pipe dream as well. This goes on for a few years and the people that started this pipe dream make alot of money. Well now people start seeing that hey wait a minute where's the value in all of this? There isn't any. They sell off what they have. Every other "venture capitalist" sells off what they have and now you get to where the true dollar amount of the commodity is, next to nothing. Take your pick on this. Let's see .com stocks, internet companies, tech stocks. Ok I thing we've all been hurt more than a little on that one. Hmmm pyramid schemes, Amway, money pyramids, etc. Arabians, mink, emus, ostrich, etc. the list goes on and on. The only people that make money at this are the ones that start it. A guy I know down the road has a farm of so many llamas you can't count them. He's got a couple of those 50k stud llamas he'd probably sell ya for $100. Said he had over 150k in 10 llamas and sold three for over a $1k in the last 8 years. Figures he's over 200k in the hole now on them. And so it goes on and on...

 

[RichZ]

Don, I appreciate your information. As you are not registered, I don't know where you live. As usual, my friend, Richard (cowboydoc) has stated the facts very accurately. In my area, upstate NY, it happened exactly as Richard stated, and I almost got sucked into the whole thing, until he told me to be careful. I checked it out after he explained the facts to me, and he was 100% right. I know you're excited about this venture, but all we are saying is be very careful. As far as I have seen, there is no market for the wool, except for small cottage industries, which already have their suppliers. The only market is selling young to other prospective investors. Eventually it all dries up, in the manner that Bird explained earlier, using emus as examples. Be careful!!

Rich

 

[patrickg]

Are you guys psychic? I was having this same dialog with a neighbor a few days before it started here. Seems that his dog, best he ever had, was dumped near him a few yrs back. Lots of dog dumping in our rural area. Last few years there has been some "EXOTIC DUMPING" A whole trailer load of emus were dumped a couple years ago. Not lost, not misplaced... DUMPED. My neighbor has had an emu on his farm for a couple weeks now. Just showed up. It chases the wild deer that used to come up near the house. His wife says it looks like they hit 50 MPH but probably more like 40. They got it to eat corn out of their hand and then tried to switch to creep feed. No go. It just gave them a dirty look. She mixed corn into creep feed and it ate the corn kernels out while she was holding it out in her hand. When the corn was gone it pecked her hand and stood there and glared at her.

I have a distant cousin that was into exotics a few years back. Only money he made was in selling breeders to other folks by apealing to their greed. (Sorry, no nice way to say this.) It is a pyramid scheme and you are way late. If you can aford the cost without considering any profit and truly enjoy raising them, then go for it. If it is a scheme to finance your kids education, rethink the plan. I would rather be thought rude than have somebody fall victim to the over optimistic ill conceived plan.

Let me explain the basis, the kernel so to speak of what is happening here. The plan is to transfer as much of your bank account into their bank account as is possible/practical for them. Any future gains or success on your part is strictly coincidental and not related to their plan. The probability of your success (defined as a profitable venture where you make more $ than flipping burgers or stuffing envelopes) is virtually nil. Ask to see full disclosure of the books, audited by an independent liscensed and bonded auditor that prove their claims. Be prepared to stand asside so as not to be trampled in there rush to the door.

Patrick

 

[dmccarty]

PatrickG,

Yes, TBN IS psychic. I think its the only word to describe how TBN operates. A Modular House thread just opened up in Rural. The wife and I are rethinking our plans for our house for the upteenth billioneth time last night and this morning. We were back thinking about mobile home/modular home options.

Up pops the modular home thread on TBN. Pure psychic....... /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

And Cowboydoc's talk about this kind of lifestock enterprise fit right in with the conversation the wife and I were having about her horse and the stables where its kept. /w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif

Later...
Dan

 

[Bird]

Dan, we live in a 28' x 52' double wide "manufactured home" (formerly known as mobile homes, house trailers, etc.[laugh). And the only thing I would do differently if I had it to do over again is to pour a concrete slab first to set it up on. However, I can't say I saved much money over a site built or modular home because we did some checking, went for quality construction, and ordered it custom built with all the company's "options" plus a bunch of custom modifications.

Bird

 

[TerryinMD]

Just skimmed through the thread and caught the cautions on "farming" exotic animals. Yep, one must be careful.

Friends of ours bought into the Emu rage about 5 or 6 years ago. I cannot remember the going rate for a producing pair, but it was quite high. So, they bought 10 eggs from a "reputable" supplier for $4,000. Yep, $400 per egg. They also had to purchase an incubator and all of the other goodies. Only one egg hatched out of the ten. Ka-ching, $3,600 down the hole. Got smart real quick and bought a breeding pair. They were going to raise the Emu's for meat and the by-products. Ahhh, a hitch, can't get them butchered in Maryland!!! Since the state hadn't classified the bird as butcherable livestock, no meat processing firms could slaughter the animals. Hmmmm, go to another state. Well, the cost of transporting the animals, feeding them, etc., etc. exceeded the amount of money they would get in return.

Well, to make a long story short. We enjoyed Emu barbeques. Our friends would not even questimate how much each Emu steak or Kabob cost?

Lessons learned.......

 

[dmccarty]

Bird,

Thanks for the info.

Why would you want a concrete slab?

We went down the modular/manufactured home route last year. We were very close to signing a contract on a modular house. BUT, his price had slowly increased to 70+ dollars a square foot. Our friend was building a house across the street, stick built, for $73 per square foot.... She had lots of upgrades such as wood floors that we did not have so he priced himself out of the market.

He was the fourth or fifth builder we had talked to and the best of the group. The lesson we learned is that if you wanted a plain house just like the model then you could get a house for around $50 a square foot. If you wanted bigger/more windows, more power outlets, phone outlets, etc., then you might as well build a stick house and not worry about having to build inside the 14 foot wide boxes.....

Later...
Dan

 

[Bird]

<font color=blue>Why would you want a concrete slab</font color=blue>

Dan, the most common way to set up manufactured housing in this area is to put a bunch of concrete pads (usually 2' x 2' x 3 or 4" thick) on the ground, and concrete blocks on that, with perhaps some hardwood wedges for leveling under the steel frame (every 6 or 8 feet I believe). Then of course, they screw the steel anchors in the ground to anchor it down. I suppose that works OK if the ground never settles or shifts anymore, but this black clay does shrink and swell with the changes in weather. As a result, you need to re-level them about every 2 to 5 years or you may have doors not closing right and even worse if you let it go too long. In other words, a concrete slab would keep the entire house level longer. And then if you ever need to get under it (run another phone wire, coax cable, repair a water leak - heaven forbid) you could just roll around on your creeper instead of crawling around in the dirt. House next to me had the water line coming up out of the ground into the house freeze and burst winter before last. Plumbers had to crawl around in mud to fix it. If you want to put manufactured housing on Richland-Chambers Lake in the east end of the county, a concrete slab is a requirement.

Unfortunately, manufactured housing may depreciate in value, so that's the major disadvantage, but looking at your figures of $50 - $70 - $73 per square foot . . .. Well, our home cost about $37 per square foot even with all the options and customizing we had done, and that included everything but light bulbs, towel and tissue holders, and furniture (central heat and air, dishwasher, range, refrigerator with ice maker, mini-blinds, drapes, carpet, etc.).

Bird