Loader Question:

FRIZ · May 17, 2009

Loader Question:

I am city slicker who bought 78 acres of land. And I am smart enough to know that I know nothing. But before I ask my loader question, let me give you some information:

The land is in the Midwest, mostly flat, a few slight elevations. Most of it is wooded, approximately 10 acres are meadow, which has not been mowed in years.
Three ponds: 1.5 acre, 1+ acre and 0.5 acre, all with trees and grass around them.
The house has also trees and grass around it.
Approximately 800 yards of gravel road.
Approximately 1 mile of hiking trail which will be expanded.

I have identified the following tasks for the loader:

Drag trees out for firewood
Lift heavy stuff and take it from A to B
Clean up work, i.e. branches, garbage
Maintain the 78 acres of land

I am planning to buy the following tractor.

John Deere 3720 with a 300CX loader

Now I have the following questions:

Bucket:
61in or 73in wide?
Heavy duty or not?
If heavy duty, with tooth bars or not?

Are Debris Grapple Bucket and Pallet Forks useful to maintain my 78 acres of land? Or am I wasting money?

If a good investment:

Debris Grapple Bucket:
61in or 73in wide?

Pallet Forks:
42in or 48in?

PLEASE help with constructive criticism and with your experiences.

Thank you,
Regards,
FRIZ

mfreund · May 17, 2009

These are my opinions and worth what you paid for them

When looking a loader attachmnets you need to keep in mind the lift capacity of the 300 loader. If you can lift 2500 lbs a 300 lb bucket is part of the lift capacity. For instance if you had a 300 lb bucket you could lift 2200 lbs of dirt. A 700 lb bucket you could only lift 1800 lbs of dirt.

I would get the 61" bucket handy around the house/yard. Tooth bar, would be nice to have but if you NEED it you need more tractor or different tool (read skidsteer or mini ex)

Grapple bucket, expensive tool and lots of cost for hydraulic hook ups. It would be very nice moving debris out of the woods. Once again the more weight in the bucket the less capacity for lift. Be sure to price the power beyond to work the clamp.

The pallet forks are possibly a subustitute for the grapple bucket. They would be handy for moving limbs and debris. Longer would be better, but adds weight.

Hope this helps

NHBronc · May 18, 2009

I have a 4200, with a 420 loader, I use a 72" bucket for snow removal, and a 60" bucket for dirt work. The 60" has hooks welded to the top, and will be getting a tooth bar. I also have a set of forks that I use to maintain a couple miles of ATV trails, and when cutting brush and trees, I leave everything as long as I can and still be able to get down the trail. I use the forks as much as the buckets, if not more. I have also grabbed some pallets and use the forks to move allot of heavy or awkward pieces of equipment, concrete blocks, axles, engines and transmissions around my property. I say forks, and one bucket made for ripping stuff up and pulling and lifting, then a bigger bucket for snow and back dragging. Hope this made sense.

HCJtractor · May 18, 2009

I do similar tasks on my 300 acre wooded land. I am constantly maintaining roads and trails and doing general maintenance. In my opinion, a bucket is generally useless for this type of work. It is great for moving gravel, mulch or loose dirt, but does poorly at digging or scraping. A bucket on a small tractor just isn't the same as a bucket on a dozer. A toothbar helps a little but I don't use mine much. My bucket stays mostly on the floor of my barn collecting dust. But it is handy at times, so get a cheap medium duty bucket w/o a bar for that occasional use. (assuming you have a quick attach on your FEL, which hopefully is skid steer compatible, but that's another topic). What I do recommend is a 48" root grapple (such as a Markham) which is the most useful implement I have. To pick up limbs and debris, to move rocks, logs, up-root trees and brush, or even pick up most anything, it is FAR superior to a bucket for what you describe. It has a "thumb" for clutching whatever you want to pick up, whatever the shape, whereas a bucket just can't clutch things. A grapple bucket is an alternative but doesn't do either task (bucket vs. grapple) as well as each specific implement therefore is a costly compromise. Disadvantages of a grapple are the initial cost (yet doesn't cost much more than a decent bucket) and the extra hydraulic controls necessary. And it helps to have a quick attach style FEL. But it will do so much more that a bucket and will quickly become your favorite implement. A grapple on the front and a box blade on the rear is a combination that will do most every task around your property.

A fork also seems unwise. Unless you are moving pallets, or building materials such as lumber or plywood, you don't need it. A grapple will pick up any thing forks would and clutch it tighter. (except the above mentioned materials). For instance, sometimes when I do need my bucket to move piles of dirt, I will pick it up with my grapple and carry it to where I am working so that I will have both on hand to save a trip to the barn to change implements. The other day I picked up a 20 foot long 500lb. steel pipe with the grapple and transported it to a culvert site. Try that with a bucket!

Check out threads by Islandtractor, the grapple guru on TBN. Hope this helps!

LD1 · May 18, 2009

I will start out by saying that unless you plan on mowing your lawn with this tractor, I thing you need to look at a bigger tractor for 78 acres. Don't limit yourself to just JD either. There are several other tractor manufactures that make fine peices of equipment that might fit your budget better and get you into a machine better suited to your tasks. Mahindra, Kioti, Kubota, New Holland, Massey Ferguson, Montanna, just to name a few. If I had 78 acres I'd be looking at a kubota l4400, MX5100, Kioti DK45 or similar sized Tractor. Do Your research, All the manufactures list very detailed specs on the web.

A bit of advice when comparing specs of 3ph and loaders, not all are rated the same. Loaders are rated at bucket center, pivot pin, and 500mm forward. 3ph's are measured at ball ends, and 24" back. When comparing, make sure you compair apples to apples.

As for buckets, if you plan on using it a lot, and doing a lot of dirt work, I'd get a 61" heavy duty. Buckets take a beating, and the stronger the better. If you were just moving light stuff like mulch and pushing brush, the 72" would be better, but given the size of the tractor and the traction ability, a 61" would be better for the dirt work.

Everything else mentioned is just luxury. Grapples, grapple buckets, forks, tooth bars, etc. they make the job easier, but you can still do most anything with a regular bucket.

If you want pallet forks, I'd get the 42" ones. The lift capacity of the 300 loader is only like ~1200lbs at the bucket edge. 48" beyond that and they can't do much. If you got something that you cant fit on the 42" forks, you probabally cant lift it anyway.

FRIZ · May 19, 2009

Thank you all for the education. Please keep it coming.

Regards,
FRIZ

jenkinsph · May 19, 2009

I think a 4320 to 4720 would b a better choice. This will handle a large variety of 6' equipment very well. Then go with the 400CX, 72" hd bucket, 48" rail pallet forks, weighted tires, telescopic draft links, 6' box blade, MX6 rotary cutter and add the rest as you figure it out.

Steve

ddivinia · May 19, 2009

FRIZ said:
Loader Question:

I am city slicker who bought 78 acres of land. And I am smart enough to know that I know nothing. But before I ask my loader question, let me give you some information:

The land is in the Midwest, mostly flat, a few slight elevations. Most of it is wooded, approximately 10 acres are meadow, which has not been mowed in years.
Three ponds: 1.5 acre, 1+ acre and 0.5 acre, all with trees and grass around them.
The house has also trees and grass around it.
Approximately 800 yards of gravel road.
Approximately 1 mile of hiking trail which will be expanded.

I have identified the following tasks for the loader:

Drag trees out for firewood
Lift heavy stuff and take it from A to B
Clean up work, i.e. branches, garbage
Maintain the 78 acres of land

I am planning to buy the following tractor.

John Deere 3720 with a 300CX loader

Now I have the following questions:

Bucket:
61in or 73in wide?
Heavy duty or not?
If heavy duty, with tooth bars or not?

Are Debris Grapple Bucket and Pallet Forks useful to maintain my 78 acres of land? Or am I wasting money?

If a good investment:

Debris Grapple Bucket:
61in or 73in wide?

Pallet Forks:
42in or 48in?

PLEASE help with constructive criticism and with your experiences.

Thank you,
Regards,
FRIZ

How big is your yard that you will mow regularly?

My guy feel is that the 3720 might be too small for the larger work you want to do.

I would not do the 73" bucket - too much for your rig unless you are moving very light material.

48" pallet forks - there are a couple options there.

I have a grapple bucket and it totally rocks.

How big a mower are you considering (shredder wise, finishing mower, ?)

10 acres - can mow fine with 6' shredder.

Consider a landscape rake for the road - box blade for the rough stuff.

I would think you should consider a zero turn mower for around the house stuff and tighter stuff - finishing mower.

A larger tractor the other stuff. Moving trees around is not trivial. You can turn a tractor over in a hurry. Heavier is better for sure. You will want to add weight to a 3720 tractor to make it safe.

We bought a place and cleared a bunch of trees. I had a 4720 with a 400x loader. It turned out to be a tad weak at times. I added a 5525 with a 542 loader with the grapple bucket and it is much better.

You asked about teeth for your bucket - you want it. They go on and off easily I suspect you will never take it off once you have it.

For sure - get the heavy duty bucket - but not too wide.

Get extendable links.

Do you ever think you will need a higher HP tractor?
Do you plan on baling hay?
Do you plan on running a 15' batwing mower?
Do you plan on adding a backhoe?

78 acres plus a house - making one tractor do it all can be tough.

D.

ddivinia · May 19, 2009

mfreund said:
These are my opinions and worth what you paid for them

When looking a loader attachmnets you need to keep in mind the lift capacity of the 300 loader. If you can lift 2500 lbs a 300 lb bucket is part of the lift capacity. For instance if you had a 300 lb bucket you could lift 2200 lbs of dirt. A 700 lb bucket you could only lift 1800 lbs of dirt.

I would get the 61" bucket handy around the house/yard. Tooth bar, would be nice to have but if you NEED it you need more tractor or different tool (read skidsteer or mini ex)

Grapple bucket, expensive tool and lots of cost for hydraulic hook ups. It would be very nice moving debris out of the woods. Once again the more weight in the bucket the less capacity for lift. Be sure to price the power beyond to work the clamp.

The pallet forks are possibly a subustitute for the grapple bucket. They would be handy for moving limbs and debris. Longer would be better, but adds weight.

Hope this helps

Grapple buckets rock

If brings up a good point. If you have zero attachements now. You should consider get the loader setup for a skid steer. You can rent the items or right now there is a lot of good stuff for cheap. Grapple buckets, tooth buckets, etc.

I have a grapple setup, but I don't have the power beyond (which is not cheap). I plug the grapple into my rear hydraulic on the 4520. On the 5525 it has the 3rd scv and a thumb switch.

Grapples work nice for grabbing things like trees, etc. I use my grapple and a chipper/shredder on the back. I pick the trees up and cut away. Can clean up as a I go.

D.

ddivinia · May 19, 2009

HCJtractor said:
I do similar tasks on my 300 acre wooded land. I am constantly maintaining roads and trails and doing general maintenance. In my opinion, a bucket is generally useless for this type of work. It is great for moving gravel, mulch or loose dirt, but does poorly at digging or scraping. A bucket on a small tractor just isn't the same as a bucket on a dozer. A toothbar helps a little but I don't use mine much. My bucket stays mostly on the floor of my barn collecting dust. But it is handy at times, so get a cheap medium duty bucket w/o a bar for that occasional use. (assuming you have a quick attach on your FEL, which hopefully is skid steer compatible, but that's another topic). What I do recommend is a 48" root grapple (such as a Markham) which is the most useful implement I have. To pick up limbs and debris, to move rocks, logs, up-root trees and brush, or even pick up most anything, it is FAR superior to a bucket for what you describe. It has a "thumb" for clutching whatever you want to pick up, whatever the shape, whereas a bucket just can't clutch things. A grapple bucket is an alternative but doesn't do either task (bucket vs. grapple) as well as each specific implement therefore is a costly compromise. Disadvantages of a grapple are the initial cost (yet doesn't cost much more than a decent bucket) and the extra hydraulic controls necessary. And it helps to have a quick attach style FEL. But it will do so much more that a bucket and will quickly become your favorite implement. A grapple on the front and a box blade on the rear is a combination that will do most every task around your property.

A fork also seems unwise. Unless you are moving pallets, or building materials such as lumber or plywood, you don't need it. A grapple will pick up any thing forks would and clutch it tighter. (except the above mentioned materials). For instance, sometimes when I do need my bucket to move piles of dirt, I will pick it up with my grapple and carry it to where I am working so that I will have both on hand to save a trip to the barn to change implements. The other day I picked up a 20 foot long 500lb. steel pipe with the grapple and transported it to a culvert site. Try that with a bucket!

Check out threads by Islandtractor, the grapple guru on TBN. Hope this helps!

Good advice - but forks are so cheap and handy - they are a good addition. Unloading feed on pallets. We have built barns around here by standing on a pallet on the loaded. Have a safety harness and clip to the pallet forks, etc.

D.

ddivinia · May 19, 2009

jenkinsph said:
I think a 4320 to 4720 would b a better choice. This will handle a large variety of 6' equipment very well. Then go with the 400CX, 72" hd bucket, 48" rail pallet forks, weighted tires, telescopic draft links, 6' box blade, MX6 rotary cutter and add the rest as you figure it out.

Steve

That is good advice. Even a 4120 with e-hydro.

Tires - R1 or R4s. Depends on how nasty the conditions get.

Landscape rake

With all those trees - consider a Chipper/shredder and a log splitter.

Grapple - and plumb into the rear valve (which is optional). They have a plumbing kit - I have it on my 4520.

Might consider a cab...

D.

NHBronc · May 20, 2009

HCJtractor said:
I do similar tasks on my 300 acre wooded land. I am constantly maintaining roads and trails and doing general maintenance. In my opinion, a bucket is generally useless for this type of work. It is great for moving gravel, mulch or loose dirt, but does poorly at digging or scraping. A bucket on a small tractor just isn't the same as a bucket on a dozer. A toothbar helps a little but I don't use mine much. My bucket stays mostly on the floor of my barn collecting dust. But it is handy at times, so get a cheap medium duty bucket w/o a bar for that occasional use. (assuming you have a quick attach on your FEL, which hopefully is skid steer compatible, but that's another topic). What I do recommend is a 48" root grapple (such as a Markham) which is the most useful implement I have. To pick up limbs and debris, to move rocks, logs, up-root trees and brush, or even pick up most anything, it is FAR superior to a bucket for what you describe. It has a "thumb" for clutching whatever you want to pick up, whatever the shape, whereas a bucket just can't clutch things. A grapple bucket is an alternative but doesn't do either task (bucket vs. grapple) as well as each specific implement therefore is a costly compromise. Disadvantages of a grapple are the initial cost (yet doesn't cost much more than a decent bucket) and the extra hydraulic controls necessary. And it helps to have a quick attach style FEL. But it will do so much more that a bucket and will quickly become your favorite implement. A grapple on the front and a box blade on the rear is a combination that will do most every task around your property.

A fork also seems unwise. Unless you are moving pallets, or building materials such as lumber or plywood, you don't need it. A grapple will pick up any thing forks would and clutch it tighter. (except the above mentioned materials). For instance, sometimes when I do need my bucket to move piles of dirt, I will pick it up with my grapple and carry it to where I am working so that I will have both on hand to save a trip to the barn to change implements. The other day I picked up a 20 foot long 500lb. steel pipe with the grapple and transported it to a culvert site. Try that with a bucket!

Check out threads by Islandtractor, the grapple guru on TBN. Hope this helps!

To say forks are "unwise", is funny. Are they dangerous? Will they kill you? They are a simple, strong attachment, that needs no hydrolics. We use ours all the time (mine on my 4200, at work we have a 4600, and a friends construction company uses them with several pieces of equipment.). Even picking up pipe and culverts and not doing any damage. Grapples are nice, but don't bash the fork

orlo · May 20, 2009

Friz:

My 2 cents. I have a 3720 a 61" HD bucket with replaceable edge and a 72" grapple.
The non HD buckets are not worth getting unless all your doing is scooping up stuff and not digging.

The 72" bucket will be too big for the 300CX in really heavy stuff. It'll work but the 61" will be better. I can fill my 72" grapple bucket very, very, very heavy. It'll still lift but it seems like a lot.

For the grapple if you will be grabbing 'junk' I'd go 72" I've lifted trees, etc. with mine and even 'dragged' a root ball that was probably 3000lbs with it.

If you were primarly grabbing logs You might go with the smaller 60" one. The weight difference between them isn't much - They are both pretty heavy, I think mine is 650lbs which does take away from the lift capacity.

If you'll be digging the toothbar may be useful.

HCJtractor · May 20, 2009

NHBronc, perhaps you did not read what I said. "Unless you move pallets or building materials..." it would be unwise to buy forks initially when other implements will be more useful. Of course forks are great for certain tasks, but does he need them to maintain his acreage? I think not. I have never wished I had a fork, and it would be far down my list of implements I would buy. Feel free to express your opinion, but please refrain from mocking mine.

Barely Smokin' · May 20, 2009

Friz,

My pallet forks are one of my most-used attachments. It makes moving material around so much easier. Right now I've got paving bricks, stone, firewood, lumber, scrap, 4x8 sheets, 5 gal buckets of used hydro oil, old batteries, etc. all palletized. I even built some 42 x 42 x 36" metal cubes that I use for gang boxes with my tools and other loose items that I can stack three high if I want. I palletize all my other attachments so I can move them around easily if I need to, plus it keeps them off the ground.

I constantly use my pallet forks for brush removal. I just pile up branches or whole trees, being careful to keep them somewhat aligned, and then ease into them with the forks. 42" forks will pick up a ton of brush, and I usually leave very little brush on the ground, just using the forks. Maybe some other members may enlighten me, as I don't own a grapple, but it seems a grapple would only improve my ability to "tug" on a load, pick up a load while pitched downhill, or stabilize the load. I don't see it meaningfully adding capacity. Personally, I don't perceive a need for one, for what I do.

One thing that would concern my regarding a grapple is, in fact, having a long load so securely fastened to the FEL, especially on a hill, sideways. If your property is pretty flat, I wouldn't worry too much about it.

Consider 4WD and a box blade. I don't think 42" vs 48" forks would make too much difference.

orlo · May 20, 2009

Friz:

I agree on the forks. I have a set and don't use it for brush since I have the grapple but they are handy as he##. I use them to load other implements on my trailer (When I want to move just an implement to another site), Move heavy items around, and even just move heavy implements around in the barn. They also are (don't try this at home) great when used with a pallet as a work platform if somebody lifts you up.

I also intend to use them to move snow machines around easily, etc.

Regarding a side load on the grapple that is true. If you get a 20 foot tree or limb in it and it's not balanced correctly or you are on a slope it can be tricky but Ballast is all that much more important and keep the load low.

One thing I've never got around to is I bought some loader quick adapter hooks and pins (For welding on to things) and bought a cheap harbor freight quick hitch. My intent was to weld some steel onto the quick hitch then weld the hooks and pins onto the steel so I could latch on a 3pt quick hitch onto the loader. This would allow me to move 3pt attachments very easily and would even be useful for some light implements like a small landscape rake. Maybe this summer I'll get around to it.

The grapple is expensive, but if you use it a lot (I use mine quite a bit) it's great to use.
For cleanup I'll even chainsaw a tree in bits while in the grapple (on the ends only) being careful to even out the cuts side to side. No dirt in the chain.

FRIZ · May 23, 2009

Thank you all for the education.

Regards,
FRIZ

ddivinia · May 23, 2009

Barely Smokin' said:
Friz,

My pallet forks are one of my most-used attachments. It makes moving material around so much easier. Right now I've got paving bricks, stone, firewood, lumber, scrap, 4x8 sheets, 5 gal buckets of used hydro oil, old batteries, etc. all palletized. I even built some 42 x 42 x 36" metal cubes that I use for gang boxes with my tools and other loose items that I can stack three high if I want. I palletize all my other attachments so I can move them around easily if I need to, plus it keeps them off the ground.

I constantly use my pallet forks for brush removal. I just pile up branches or whole trees, being careful to keep them somewhat aligned, and then ease into them with the forks. 42" forks will pick up a ton of brush, and I usually leave very little brush on the ground, just using the forks. Maybe some other members may enlighten me, as I don't own a grapple, but it seems a grapple would only improve my ability to "tug" on a load, pick up a load while pitched downhill, or stabilize the load. I don't see it meaningfully adding capacity. Personally, I don't perceive a need for one, for what I do.

One thing that would concern my regarding a grapple is, in fact, having a long load so securely fastened to the FEL, especially on a hill, sideways. If your property is pretty flat, I wouldn't worry too much about it.

Consider 4WD and a box blade. I don't think 42" vs 48" forks would make too much difference.

48" pallets are the standard in shipping, etc. They also give you a little more reach if you are trying to pull a pallet out of a truck, etc.

You are exactly right on the grapple. You will find out rather quickly if you have it balanced. One thing you must know the location of and know how to use it is "float mode" on the front end loader. I have had it get squirrelly on me and I kick it into float which drops it - reposition and try again.

All this brings up - if I was buying all new equipment today - I would go skid loader attachment. GRapple buckets, forks, etc - standard stuff with skid steers and they can be way cheaper and sometime a lot better built.

D.