LOADERS: do we expect too much from them?

[Bob_Skurka]

There have been a couple threads lately about some people who are disappointed in their FELs.

I have been very critical of the 402 loader on the B2910 in a few threads calling it anemic. But I think I have been reasonably consistent in my criticism by comparing it to the 12la loader on a smaller TC24. So from a "relative" size issue, I think the 402 is weak, but only from that standpoint. And I do love the little 12la loader, but it is mearly an equal of the 402 in terms of capacities. So the reason I like it is because it has the same power, but in a smaller package that has more maneuverability and much greater visibility . . . but no additional capacity. Lots of power, small package, in my mind equals good.

There is new thread about the 16la loader being too weak to lift a skid steer bucket full of wet soil, and the owner is disappointed. While others, using the same loader with a regular bucket seem satisfied.

There are a couple threads in the Kubota forum where a guy started out looking at a BX series then went up to an L3130 and is now looking at the B2910 and probably everything in between. Much of his concerns with picking a tractor seem to revolve around his intended loader use and the loader choice seems to be the major deciding factor on the tractor. The fact that an L3130 with a 723 loader could probably pick up a BX series tractor seems to me to favor the larger machine, but is it too much or not enough or both?

So I am just curious, overall, are most people happy with their loaders or do they wish they could do more? I realize that most CUT owners probably only own 1 machine and consequently can't make comparisions between 2 or 3 different brands so this is purely subjective.

Personally (as much as I might complain) I am typically amazed by how much work these little tractors can do.

 

[Henro]

Bob,

I don't have anything to compare to, but I must say I am impressed with the LA402 on my B2910.

It has been a hard worker, lifted more than I expected many times and all that.

I sometimes push it to its limits, but I don't expect it to do what I am trying to when I reach that point.

I guess that means I don't expect too much from my loader. I am totally satisfied with it. I think it matches my tractor size wise.

No complaints here... /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[shvl73]

I think the ML108H loader on my Mahindra could be a bit stronger. I have loaded rears & the the unit is very solid & stable when lifting a bucket full, but I think the size of the machine could handle a few hundred more lbs of lifting capacity. I have used a TC35 w/ a 16LA loader & thought I would be more impressed by it's capacity than I was. If I actually look at it objectively, the size rocks I was able to move vs. the ones with my machine, it was considerably stronger & there's is no arguing the curved arms are excellent. I guess I'm one of those that feels they should move more than they are designed for & is realistic for what these machines are made for. Maybe the designers always err on the side of caution & I'm looking for commercial backhoe capability, realizing it isn't going to happen.

 

[ManofMystery]

Bob,

Henro more or less stated my position.

I have a BX2200, and the loader feels very weak to me. When it is loaded to its lifting capacity, however, the tractor is at its limits with respect to stability and tire capacity.

I think that the only improvement that would be consistent with safe operation of this tractor would be more breakout force. Maybe a stronger bucket curl would improve my ability to dig and make the loader feel more powerful.

 

[GregJ]

Bob,
I am very satisfied with the 302 load on my B7500. I wouldn't want it any more powerful on a tractor this size, for safety reasons. I have had the back wheels off the ground before, with the BH on, and that seems to be enough power for me..... Of course there are times when I wish I could lift more, but then realize that I would have to trade up to a larger tractor, which means a larger footprint and less manuverability.

Greg

 

[MicroPilot]

Are people dissappointed because they don't realize that a tractor loader is a design after-thought, and not a built to be a loader machine like a backhoe?

The way I look at it is it can lift WAY more than I can, and therefore saved me a lot of work and back-ache. I have had my loader beyond it's lift capacity moving some very WET mud and gravel, I just made 2 trips instead of one. Still beat the heck out of a shovel and wheel-barrow!!

Things I've used my loader for:

excavating behind barn
move manure
pull T-post fence poles
haul large rocks
lifted and moved hot-tub
dig trees
haul fence poles
move large 12' gate
move 24" x 24" x 12" concrete drain
move large 18"+ dia. logs into trailer
move 20' x 12" drain pipe
haul sakrete and garbage can of water to remote site
haul tools to work site
and much more!!


Almost all these things would have required much more time to accomplish and been harder on my back if not for the FEL. If my loader can't or won't do a job, will I be dissapointed? Probably for a moment, but it won't last because it will then be used to do something else and save me a lot effort.

 

[markie61]

Good philosphical question, Bob!

I like my loader - it doesn't do EVERYTHING that I want, but it does what it is advertised to do:

I can't push over any tree I want - at least big or deep-rooted trees.
I can pick up a heaping bucket of bluestone gravel.
I can't always "break out" my bucket when it is buried in clay soil.
I can carry more square bales on pallet forks than will stay stacked (like 18-20).
I can't pick up the end of 40foot by 2-3ft oak tree trunk.
I can pick up 1/3-1/2 cord of seasoned oak firewood.

I demand a lot from my loader: I am always pushing it. But I have learned to temper expectations with the reality that the loader has its limits. A CUT is neither a bulldozer nor an industrial TLB. My tractor does so many tasks well that the things it doesn't do stand out and leave me feeling a tad disappointed - I guess I am spoiled. But for what I need to accomplish, my loader satisfies me at least 95% of the time.

Sometimes I think I have the "eyes bigger than your stomach" kind of mentality with my loader: I look at a what I see being a relatively small log and say to myself, "That is less than a ton." Later, I cut it up, split it and fill 2-3 pallets and realize that the log must have been 5-6000 pounds. In other words, sometimes my perceptions of the load's weight is much less than the actual weight.

Oh, and let's not forget the effects of quick-attach plates, HD buckets, toothbars, cutting edges, grapples, hooks, etc that add weight and change the center of balance/geometry (thus lowering lifting capacity and breakout force.)

--->These comments assume that there is not a mechanical problem with the loader /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif<---

Mark

 

[BGL990]

I have a JD 990 with 430 FEL and heavy duty bucket. I too have run into several occasions where my loader seemed a bit wimpy. For example, it usually wouldn't lift the bucket through a pile of black dirt I was recently moving. This was not some hard packed hill I was trying to dig either - just fresh sifted topsoil dumped from a truck. If I buried the bucket in the pile, I had to back out a bit to lift the bucket. Perhaps I'm expecting too much of it, but in my mind a loader should be set such that it stalls just shy of breaking something. When I pull the stick, I want something to happen! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Having said that, I also realize that the ability to lift that much weight can be dangerous if you aren't careful. I've had one back wheel a few inches off the ground a couple of times with a heavy load in the bucket, even with loaded tires, but that doesn't make me wish for any less lift capacity. If I get into trouble, it is my own fault for being lazy/careless/stupid.

 

[JayC]

I think part of the problem with these loaders is too many try to use them in heavy, wet dirt and take too big a bite. Here is an excerpt from a manual on Deere's site that may help:

Filling the Bucket

There are two basic methods of filling a bucket from a pile - Arc Penetration and Step Penetration. Judge the type of penetration needed for loading and vary the methods to suit the materials.

c CAUTION: Avoid injury! To prevent possible injury from falling material, remove overhangs from top of banks or stockpile before starting excavation.

Arc Penetration

Arc penetration is best suited for loose or light materials.

MX15044

With the arc penetration method, the bucket is forced into the pile and rolled back, then raised in a continuous upward arc until the bucket is filled. When activating both the lift and bucket hydraulic circuits at the same time, the lift or roll-back system may occasionally stall the loader. When this happens, disengage either the lift or roll-back function to allow maximum hydraulic force to one set of the cylinders. If stalling happens frequently, use the step penetration method.

Step Penetration

MX15045

With the step penetration method, the bucket is forced into the pile at ground level with the bucket bottom horizontal to the ground. Force the bucket into the pile as far as possible during the initial thrust. Raise the bucket about a foot and then force it further into the pile. Repeat this cycle as many times as necessary to fill the bucket.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

<font color="green"> Are people dissappointed because they don't realize that a tractor loader is a design after-thought, and not a built to be a loader machine like a backhoe?
</font>

That is another good questions!

I know that I would give up some capacity for speed and ease of use. In my mind, all of the small modern (under 40hp) CUTs really range in specs from glorified lawn mowers to mini-not-quite-capable-farm-tractor-look-alikes. I think if someone actually built a machine to be first and foremost a small loader, they would build a Power Trac.

But we demand much more from our little tractors, including the ability to do some basic farming applications. So basically we all own a compramise machine that is a little of this and some of that with a dash of that thing added too. Some tractors are more specialized that others, but from the heaviest Mahindra to the lightest Kubota, all need counterweight to work properly/safely/efficiently with an FEL and most of us use them to mow our lawns and plant our trees too.