Log Splitter on BX25

[Tractor Seabee]

I want to get a log splitter but am confused by the Kubota Power Beyond (PB) feature. The 3PT splitters I have seen so far only have two hoses. I would propose to use the Backhoe hydraulics which has the three hoses. With the BH off the PB hose couples to the Supply (P) connector and the Tank Return (T) is left capped. Logic from tracing the hydraulic circuits in the shop manual tells me that it should work using the P connection and either the R or T connection as eventually the PB piping goes to the tank but maybe the PB is the better one. Also I would pre-fill the top of the cylinder (they hold a lot) in the upright posistion to keep from running the tank too low when first putting in operation. After that any fluid would either be in one end of the cylinder or the other. I would put a vent connection on the top of the upright cylinder to bleed air instead of circulating all of it.

Am I on the right track? My dealer says don't do it as he has never seen a successful hook up for a 3PT log splitter and will no longer sell them as he has had to take too many back. With the 6.3 gpm pump capacity I would expect slow cycling but I am not planning to make a living with it just save my poor old back. That is why I would use one in the vertical posistion. The big limiting factor is the hydraulic pressure limited by the relief valve to 1778-1849 psi which I assume is factory set at the lower value. But this is also a function of the cylinder Diameter but the larger the cylinder the slower the cycling.

I get the idea fast that my dealership is a little short in the hydraulic theory arena. They seem to want to stay with only Kubota recommendations. Strange as they also sell construction equipment. Also I cannot get power curves for either the PTO or the Hydraulics. I do not like to run my engine full open if the load does not require it. I usually stay around 2100 RPM and can do most things I need to do. I tend to baby my equipment as experience indicates that it lasts longer. At the max throttle of 3200 RPM the engine is screaming.

Am I thinkig straight. I need some experienced advice, Ron

 

[J_J]

If you do not have a remote valve, and your hyd flow is from pump, FEL , 3pt, tank, then you can do this. Connect a hose from FEL PB out, to a QD at the back

Make another hose with a QD that will go to the IN on the 3pt.

When using the BH, plug in the BH PB hose to the 3pt QD.

The BH IN hose plugs into the QD from the FEL , and run the BH tank port to tank. .

When not using the BH, connect a short jumper hose to the two hoses at the back, and everything will be back to normal.

 

[Tractor Seabee]

JJ,

I am now more confused, I think you misinterpreted what I am after. Bottom line of my long explanation; which two of the three connections P, PB, T for the back hoe will operate a log splitter? Or, do I need a valve on the log splitter that has all three connections also. I saw one in the Surplus Center catalog but it is 270 some bucks. I have the backhoe and all the connections so do not need to go up to the FEL as far as I can tell from the Kubota diagrams.

Ron

 

[J_J]

Correction

You only need a PB source for the pressure IN for the splitter. If you can get the PB from the hyd block, fine.

If the log splitter valve does not have a PB out port. The return hose from the log splitter will go to the 3pt. This is not ideal as some valves can not take back pressure.

If your log splitter valve has a PB port, then the PB out of the log splitter valve will go to the 3pt. The tank port from the log splitter valve should go to tank.

 

[J_J]

The reason that the dealer will not do a log splitter setup, is about the back pressure on a FEL valve with out PB. If you look at the specs for most valves, you will see back pressure about 500 psi on the tank port.

Valves with a PB port can take the full valve or pump pressure.

 

[Northland]

Am I thinkig straight. I need some experienced advice, Ron

I have a bucket grapple that uses quick disconnect hoses connected to a WR Long electric valve kit I installed at my PB point beneath the loader. The valve kit diverts the fluid from the bucket and loader to the grapple.

Last year I bought a Speeco 3 pt splitter. I simply move the QD hoses from the bucket grapple to the splitter and split away. My B7800 only has 9.8 gallons per minute from both pumps and the maximum from one pump less the 7 gpm. The splitter works fine while my B7800 hums along at 1500 to 1800 RPM's.

Several TBNer's with BX models have posted about adding a 3PT spiltter to their tractor. A search of the posts should help you.

 

[J_J]

Northland,

If you are running that engine at 1500 rpm while log splitting, you are only getting about 3.1 GPM's. If that give the speed you like then it is all good.

There is a fast extend log splitter valve made by Prince that will take 4 GPM and make it 25 GPM, and that will definitely speed up the splitting cycle.

 

[cmhyland]

JJ,

Do they make a regen valve that does the regen in both directions? It may be a good upgrade for the Powerhorse that splits in both directions...


Regards,
Chris

 

[J_J]

No regen on retract that I know of. If someone did have the regen on both extend and retract, they would be bragging about.

Prince claims their log splitter valve is Blazing fast, and it is, at about 6 : 1 ratio on speed increase. . You put 4 GPM's in, and get 25 GPM's out. You can only use this valve on single stage hyd pumps.

 

[Northland]

Northland,

If you are running that engine at 1500 rpm while log splitting, you are only getting about 3.1 GPM's. If that give the speed you like then it is all good.

There is a fast extend log splitter valve made by Prince that will take 4 GPM and make it 25 GPM, and that will definitely speed up the splitting cycle.

Thanks for the advice JJ. I will look for one of those Prince valves if I feel the need for more speed. That would sure beat adding a PTO pump and hydrualic fluid reservoir

It's like this? - Prince LSR Rapid Extend Logsplitter Valve - Cylinder Services

 

[Tractor Seabee]

Northland & J_J or Others,

J_J and I have been kicking this to death already, and I feel he has made me really plan this out. I do not want to go off half-cocked.

I am working on the same scenario with my BX25. It is a Power Beyond system and I want to use the BH connection points. As I interpert the hydraulic systems drawings in the shop manual the PB port has to be connected or the FEL won't work as its power comes from the PB port from the BH valve block. With the BH off the tractor you have to plug the P and PB connectors together. Will that Prince valve allow the third port to continue the Power circuit? I am about to buy an old DEUS beast with 4" cylinder and 30" stroke. I will never need 30" as I cut everything 16" first. It's valve only has two hydraulic ports-P and T. Is there a way to shorten the stroke w/o changing the cylinder?

If I could figure out how, I would post the diagram from the manual. I have it in PDF.

Ron

 

[J_J]

The FEL will work irregardless if the fluid has a path to tank.

As far as shorten the stroke, you could put a wedge behind the cyl, and when the cyl retracts, it will contact the wedge and return to neutral. That kick back to neutral can be adjusted.

The prince valve only has IN ,OUT, work port 1, and 2

 

[Chilly807]

You could eliminate the problems you're having with the design of this by adding a dedicated remote valve and QC's separate from the backhoe circuit.

It'll add cost but also simplicity.

2 hoses on the splitter, one plugs into each QC, you either bungee the remote valve in position or detent it, and split your wood.

When you're done with wood, disconnect the splitter and park it, replace the backhoe with the usual connections.

You can probably use the existing connections, but the backhoe valve is designed to have flow through it all the time it's connected (not necessarily to the backhoe cylinders, of course), that's why you loop the 2 connections together with the backhoe removed.

I may be wrong on this, but it's my take on the situation you're in.

Sean

 

[J_J]

What could be any more simpler that a 7 ft hose from the PB pit port to a QD in the back, and a 3 ft hose from the 3pt IN, to another QD at the back, and call the two QD's, Aux1, and Aux2.

Aux1 comes directly from the FEL PB OUT port.

Aux 1 always the source with a male QD. Lest expensive. Of course, a jumper between Aux1, Aux2 when not using the BH or log splitter.

Stroke control

http://www.wadler.com/products.asp

http://www.depthstop.com/why-grip-rite.htm

http://www.princehyd.com/Portals/0/products/accessories/catalog/StrokeControlSleeves.pdf

 

[J_J]

If you have a loader on the tractor, just unplug the curl circuit, and extend the hoses to the back with QD's called QD1, and QD2. Plug in the log splitter in to these QD's, and go to work. Lock down the joystick lever. You still have 3pt.

Set the log splitter relief to match the FEL relief pressure.

 

[Chilly807]

He will need a PB capable valve on the splitter, I haven't had much to do with those yet, so I don't know how common those are.

Sean

 

[J_J]

If his FEL valve does have or does not have a PB port, the curl cyl hoses will still supply the hyd flow to the rear. Pb is for passing fluid to the next valve with reduced risk. The expended fluid is going out the OUT port whether he is using the curl cyl or the log splitter or the BH.

Those valve with PB are common with tractors needing additional valves. The basic low budget tractor may not have the PB capability, maybe one of the reason the tractor cost less.

Valves designed to work in open center series circuit will have PB. It is just good common sense

 

[Artisan]

T SeeBee did you get this figured out? If so I would love to see clear pics of what you did.

 

[Tractor Seabee]

T SeeBee did you get this figured out? If so I would love to see clear pics of what you did.

Artisan,

Project is on hold due to spinal surgery. I have decided that I have to get a valve with PB port. That way it hooks up same as the backhoe (three hoses). By the end of the month I may get to it again. Probably now I will work on a set of brush forks to anchor to the FEL as I have a logging project coming up and will need to handle all the limbs to make fire wood. I cut up every thing larger than 1". Saves a lot of kindling splitting and why burn or chip it.

When I start on hydraulic efforts; I plan to add a third function to the FEL for a grapple I plan to make along with brush forks (a two way solenoid valve with momentary switch on the FEL joy stick) and a four spool rear remote for various other attachments I plan to build or modify to make hydraulic vice manual.

J-J got me on the right thought process.

Ron

 

[J_J]

Tractor Seabee,

You actually have three options for the splitter /BH.

One hose from the PB to the rear feeding the splitter, and splitter return going to tank.

A remote 2 or three spool valve and using one work port to feed the splitter/BH, and the return going to tank.

Using one curl hose to feed the splitter/BH, and the return going to tank.

In the first two options, the 3pt is not in the circuit, and in the thrid option, you can use the 3pt when not using the FEL curl circuit.

If not using the splitter or BH, just jumper the PB hose to the 3pt IN hose/fitting.