Logging Rant/Venting

   / Logging Rant/Venting #1  

N80

Super Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2005
Messages
6,897
Location
SC
Tractor
Kubota L4400 4wd w/LA 703 FEL
We signed a contract with a forester 2 years ago to have about 175 acres of pines thinned. Really nice guy. He came with a recommendation from locals. Our property is hilly with lots of deep ravines, especially on the back half. He told me right off the bat that the loggers would not like working the place but that they had to do the harder jobs for him if they wanted the easy ones too.

Nothing happened for a year. He said it was due to low prices at the mill. We renewed the contract for another year. We were not in a big hurry. Nothing happened for nearly another year and then they started work last week on the front half of the property which is flatter and easier access. Then I get a call and he says he will need us to build a road and put in culverts on the back half. Does not give us a price but probably in the $3000 range. I'm not happy. Nothing in the contract about this but I decided I'd suck it up and do it. He was looking into a portable bridge so it was on hold for the time being. Then he calls yesterday and says it is too wet and the logging crew is leaving now that they've done the easy part. He can't say when they'll return.

The thing is, it is not very wet. Certainly not a drought but this is about as good as it gets around here.

Now I'm very unhappy. The trees need thinning and the money would be useful at this point.

The current contract expires on 15 September. He says there is no way they will be back before then.

My theory is this: He does not have enough clout with his logging crews. He cannot get them to cover any road prep at all. They have done no gravel, etc. They want easy access for the log trucks and don't want to accept fuel costs of skidding the trees longer distances but won't help with road prep. They took the gravy trees off our place and now want to move on to an easier job and he can't do anything about it. Further, there is no reason to expect that the weather is ever going to be any better than it is now, so I'm not buying the "too wet" excuse.

Anyway, I'm going to fire him today. I'm not looking forward to it because he is a very nice man. But after two years of waiting and then his crews doing the easy stuff and leaving, I think I've been more than patient.

Just venting.
 
   / Logging Rant/Venting #2  
Reputable logger is a contradiction in terms. They all make a mess and do what is easiest for them no matter what they tell you. Bet yours furnished the contract so it isn't binding on his part in any way.
 
   / Logging Rant/Venting
  • Thread Starter
#3  
We contracted with the forester, forester contracted with the logger so that will be his problem. Our contract with him has 4 weeks left on it and he says they won't be back before then so from a contract standpoint I'm clear and legal.

Altogether a very frustrating process. They left piles of 5 gallon hydro fluid buckets and trash last time I was there. If it isn't gone when I go down there today I'll call them to come get it or I'll deliver it to them myself.

The hard part is going to be finding someone to do the back half of the place. I know another forester who has a reputation of being a bit heavy handed and ruthless. He did a tiny clearing for me in the past but no problems. I chose not to use him because my current guy seemed friendly and easy to work with. I think the 'ruthless' guy has more clout with the loggers as he's the largest forester in the area. Maybe he can get a crew in there whether they like it or not. I understand everyone has to make money. But diesel is cheap now and when I get the whole place cut in 5-10 years it will be a lucrative job. I certainly won't be giving it to the folks that bailed on me.
 
   / Logging Rant/Venting #4  
Reputable logger is a contradiction in terms. They all make a mess and do what is easiest for them no matter what they tell you. Bet yours furnished the contract so it isn't binding on his part in any way.

This is absolutely untrue, and frankly quite rude and disrespectful.

When people make generalizations like this, they instantly lose all credibility in the eyes of the readers.
 
   / Logging Rant/Venting #5  
This is absolutely untrue, and frankly quite rude and disrespectful.

When people make generalizations like this, they instantly lose all credibility in the eyes of the readers.

Sorry if it offends anyone that may disagree but this has been my personal experience with Forester/Loggers.
 
   / Logging Rant/Venting #6  
I've been lucky in that I've had the same forester for over 20 years. He knows my expectations and we have a great business relationship. I gave him his first job when he was fresh out of Clemson forestry program. I've only had one issue with a logging crew that was unacceptable to me and I told him to never bring them back. We now deal with 3 logging companies and whichever one is available at the time that's who we go with. I won't entertain any new companies because I'm fine with these 3 and know their work. The problem I'm running into is everyone and their brother is clear cutting and crews are backed up for months. I've had contracts signed since May and I'm still waiting on my thinning job to be done on 200+ acres. I just made it clear to the forester that I'm fine with waiting, just don't start the job when the prices fall back down, I'll just wait until the go back up again. They've peaked for now so expect them to go back down here soon.
 
   / Logging Rant/Venting
  • Thread Starter
#7  
This is absolutely untrue, and frankly quite rude and disrespectful.

When people make generalizations like this, they instantly lose all credibility in the eyes of the readers.

Disagree. Sometimes stereotypes come from collective experience. Around here this is pretty much assumed anytime you have to deal with them. That does not mean that there are no conscientious, reputable logging operations here. But it does mean that they are so much the exception that no one can tell you the name of one.

And while stereotypes almost always have exceptions, groups and organizations often earn their stereotypes. This is most definitely the case with logging operations in my neck South Carolina. And from first and second hand experience the stereotype fits and is well deserved. Even with this operation they have left trash all over the place. The have spilled/dumped hydraulic fluid on the ground. When I look at the thinning results I see large trees removed among small trees left standing. This is so common as to be considered standard operating procedure and to be expected. They also tore up my gate and cut hardwoods they shouldn't have. Again, this is so common I'm not even complaining about it.

My daughter's classmate, a nice young man from a nice family has begun a logging company himself. Hopefully a reputable one. He is just outside our immediate region but I am going to call him to see what he can do, or who he recommends.

He is not a forester and I don't know if a landowner can contract directly with a logger or not. I'll find out.
 
   / Logging Rant/Venting
  • Thread Starter
#8  
RollingFarms, that is good to hear. What part of SC are you in? And if you don't mind would you share, either here or via PM the name of your forester and which looters (ha ha , funny auto correct, I meant loggers of course) he uses? No need to mention the outliers. And again, I do not feel like my forester is unscrupulous. I think he just has no clout with or control over the loggers.
 
   / Logging Rant/Venting #9  
This is absolutely untrue, and frankly quite rude and disrespectful.

When people make generalizations like this, they instantly lose all credibility in the eyes of the readers.

Hardly. Loggers are like most contractors. Undependable people who often don't deliver what they promise. That's why there are babysitters/project mangers/foresters/architects/GC's to make sure they do thier job on projects. Liquidated damages and contract periods to make sure they do their work on time.

I dont' necessarily think they are all bad people but as was mentioned they will do what's best for them, not you, more often than not. That's why bigger projects have more babysitters , rules, and regulations to follow.

The landowner in this situation should be furious after they took the whole job including the good/bad portions of work and simply did the easiest and most profitable portion for them and left him hanging. Now he has nothing but difficult to access timber and a mess to clean up.
 
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   / Logging Rant/Venting #10  
RollingFarms, that is good to hear. What part of SC are you in? And if you don't mind would you share, either here or via PM the name of your forester and which looters (ha ha , funny auto correct, I meant loggers of course) he uses? No need to mention the outliers. And again, I do not feel like my forester is unscrupulous. I think he just has no clout with or control over the loggers.

PM sent. I'm outside of Columbia and have land that borders the the bombing range and also some smaller tracts in Pinewood and Summerton.
 

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