Backhoe Logging with a Backhoe

[DAY]

Is it safe (for the backhoe, not the operator) to pull logs out of the woods with the backhoe bucket? Or is it better to hook the logging chain to the FEL, and drive in reverse? I am thinking about the stresses on various parts.

 

[wolc123]

I dont suppose your 4500 is 4wd, and that coupled with the R4 tires that most backhoes are equipped with, will put big limits on the size log you can drag pulling in reverse, hooked to the front bucket. I would look for an old Farmal H with R1 tires or something similar, which can probably be had for well under $1000 these days and use that for dragging your logs. A narrow front, standard on the H, is also a big advantage for logging, as long as the land is not hilly. Your 850 JD would also skid better than the 4500, even though it is smaller, especially if it had R1 tires. I dont see any good options for skidding logs with that TLB. The backhoe would be usefull for loading smaller logs onto a truck or trailer on a deck however.

 

[Scotty370]

Is it safe (for the backhoe, not the operator) to pull logs out of the woods with the backhoe bucket? Or is it better to hook the logging chain to the FEL, and drive in reverse? I am thinking about the stresses on various parts.

I'm thinking that what you trying to do is just 'nudge-them-out' so you can get them to a drag lane? I'd opt for using the hoe with the down riggers down, but that's going to be a repeated Position, reach, chain, curl, and repeat process!!! Weight on the FEL lifts the weight off your rear wheels! I wouldn't do that. Once in a lane, I'd be hooking to the rear tractor frame for the final drag. I've just done this! Check out my Barn and Building thread over at D.e.e.r.e.T.a.l.k.c.o.m. Just eliminate the extra 'dots'! Plus, think about the way the two implements are built. The "Hoe" for pulling toward the tractor, the FEL, for pushing away........Scotty370

 

[DAY]

I'm thinking that what you trying to do is just 'nudge-them-out' so you can get them to a drag lane? Scotty370

-That's exactly what I am doing! I'm not really "logging", just cleaning up after Irene. The hillside is too steep, too rocky, and too dense for any equipment to get to the downed timber. (I do not own a helicopter:laughing Even getting up there with a chainsaw is an adventure!
I hooked on a big (18") oak tree with 60' of one inch rope, 50' of wire rope, and a logging chain on the backhoe, and, as Scotty370 says nudge it down the hill, until I can put a pulley on a tree, and then use the 850 to get it down to the lane, and turn it into firewood.
If that doesn't work, I will have to cut it up in place, and let gravity bring 'er down :thumbsup:

 

[LD1]

Is it safe (for the backhoe, not the operator) to pull logs out of the woods with the backhoe bucket? Or is it better to hook the logging chain to the FEL, and drive in reverse? I am thinking about the stresses on various parts.

Neither is a good Idea.

Reverse you will have less power and limited mobility.

And you do NOT want to chain to the bucket and pull with the tractor. The ONLY way you should pull ANYTHING at ALL if attached to the BH is with the BH's own power, NOT the tractors.

The reason for this is simple, as you are pulling, the force of the log will try to extend the hoe out, thus trying to collapse the dipperstick cylinder. There is NO PRV between the valve and the cylinder. So the ONLY thing that will limit the pressure that builds in that line is the amount of pulling force supplied by the tractor.

And rest assured, the tractor has WAY more pulling power that the BH. You will blow the line off if you attach to a tough log. What he do you have? is it the 753, 754, or 755. Because dads is a 755, which has 4.5" cylinders. And it only has a crowd (dipperstick) force of ~5000lbs at the rated 2200psi capacity. So in otherwoods, of your pulling force exceeds that, you are incucing more pressure in that cylinder and hose that the BH itself can provide.

You'd be really suprised at how much you can indeed pull, even with R4's. These machines are in the 11000lb range. It will outpull a farmall H (as mentioned earler) any day of the week.

If you have decient R-4's, given the weight of the machine, it will probabally pull double that. And thus, you are putting 4400psi in that cylinder and line with NO PRV. See the problem???


So basically what you need to do is come up with a good and safe hitch point that does NOT impart any forces on hydraulic cylinders. Perhaps through those two holes under the operator platform of the hoe?? That is what we use on dads 4500 to pull with as well as tie it down to the trailer.

 

[DAY]

Thanks, LD1 for putting words to my vague thoughts! I have been using the hoe, outriggers down, to get that tree down the hill, 10 feet at a time, but I see the dangers (to the machine) of using it as a log skidder. I have used the 3 pt hitch on the 850 to pull some dead wood out to a flat spot before, and I will do that again- when I get that big tree down.

And then I will tackle the cherry tree, partway split, 10' up, and down across the stream. With (70% slope) NO place to stand. Maybe I should sell tickets:laughing:

 

[LD1]

And then I will tackle the cherry tree, partway split, 10' up, and down across the stream. With (70% slope) NO place to stand. Maybe I should sell tickets:laughing:

If you were a little closer, Id probabally buy one

Dont be afraid of using the 4500 to log with. I wasnt trying to scare you away from that.

Just dont hook up to anything that will put force on a hydraulic cylinder.

The 4500, if you chain like I suggested, will probabally outpull your 850 by a factor of 4 or 5

 

[DAY]

The 4500, if you chain like I suggested, will probabally outpull your 850 by a factor of 4 or 5

good point; I will go crawl under the 4500 (755 hoe) and find the best place to hook on. It is NOT a "woodland" machine; only a few inches clearance at the bottom of the hoe.

I will take some cherry tree pix and seek advice here before doing something stupid.

 

[lungdoc]

We pull logs out all the time with chains attached to a JCB large 4WD backhoe loader with outriggers out. Pull repeatedly reattaching chains as we go. As long as size of log is reasonable relative to your pulling power and you are on a stable surface I can't see any issues with it.
A snatch block and strong cable or very strong rope is another option to get logs from woods to the road - could pull with the drawbar and use the snatch block on a firm attachment point like large tree to allow the force to be parallel to your road.

 

[tungularafishcamp]

I welded a couple of old u bolts to the bottom of the base hinge plate on my L48. I pass a chain up thru one u bolt over the top of the base hinge plate down thru the other side u bolt and hook it to itself. Have pulled several big logs that way without having to take off the backhoe. Was able to still use the back hoe while hooked up that way to knudge the end of the log over to get around stumps as well.

Rick

 

[LD1]

We pull logs out all the time with chains attached to a JCB large 4WD backhoe loader with outriggers out. Pull repeatedly reattaching chains as we go. As long as size of log is reasonable relative to your pulling power and you are on a stable surface I can't see any issues with it.
A snatch block and strong cable or very strong rope is another option to get logs from woods to the road - could pull with the drawbar and use the snatch block on a firm attachment point like large tree to allow the force to be parallel to your road.

Correct, using the backhoes own hydraulics to pull the logs, there is no issue.

My point was chaining to the backhoe, and then driving the tractor with the log chiained to the boom. That is bad.

 

[dfkrug]

Or is it better to hook the logging chain to the FEL, and drive in reverse?

Logging is one of my primary tractor tasks here, and I use cables, chains,
and snatch-blocks. When pulling with the cables, I pull backwards using
a reinforced attachment point on the lower front engine subframe. When
skidding the log close in to the tractor, I use a chain attached to a
mid-point hook on the back of my FEL's pallet fork frame and lift the
closest end of the log off the ground before pulling backwards. My hoe
is always attached, so I have plenty or ballast for those heavy lifts.
My logs are often well over 2000#.

When a tree falls across my creek, I often have to use the hoe and
thumb to do the initial pull and lift....always with the outriggers down
and using the hydraulics. I would never drive the tractor with some
large load suspended from or pulled by the hoe bucket.

 

[Scotty370]

....always with the outriggers down
and using the hydraulics. I would never drive the tractor with some
large load suspended from or pulled by the hoe bucket.

That's exacty what I was trying to describe, but I guess you and LD1 described it much better....... The "Inch-Worm" approach, with repeated repositioning, and bucket curling is what I was going for, you guys did a better job, Thanks! Also, I'm not a fan of using Cable/Wire Rope etc. That stuff can build up tensile energy, and snap back at you if it breaks, with enough power to take your head off! If you've gotta use it in a 'bind', be sure to throw a blanket or tarp over it close to the tractor to adsorb the recoil, if the cable breaks! I do this even when using an ATV winch. It might just be a Jacket, but whipping cable is a nasty deal. Be safe.........~Scotty

 

[dfkrug]

Also, I'm not a fan of using Cable/Wire Rope etc.

I use a lot of chains, but sometimes cables are the only practical way. I
have to pull logs off a mountain side and use a snatch block chained to
a tree to re-direct forces. I have a 100' cable, and a 50-footer, both with
slip-hooks (chokers). The snatch block has a pulley that fits my size of
cable.

I have broken the end splices on the cables a few times, but more
dramatic was breaking 5/16" cheapo grade 43 chain links. When the
links break, they shoot out like bullets. I highly recommend using grade
70 chain.

 

[Short Game]

The ONLY way you should pull ANYTHING at ALL if attached to the BH is with the BH's own power, NOT the tractors.

I knew a guy with a JD 450C. He bought a hydraulic winch to pull with instead of his backhoe. It turned out that using the winch was much like using a backhoe for logging. He hooked the cable to a big log and tried to drive away with it. Killed the gears in the winch. It just wasn't made to pull that way. We learned something that day.

 

[brewdog]

the fel is designed for pushing. the 3 point is designed for pulling and not pushing. the hoe is designed for digging.

 

[Coyote machine]

the fel is designed for pushing. the 3 point is designed for pulling and not pushing. the hoe is designed for digging.

FEL is also for lifting.

 

[LD1]

FEL is also for lifting.

3PH is also for lifting too.

 

[Dr_Zinj]

Seems like you're saying that if you can skid the log using just the backhoe, then you could safely tow the log chained to the backhoe. But if the BH won't budge the log, trying to tow it attached to the hoe will destroy your hoe.

Makes sense to me.

 

[Short Game]

But if you are towing a log with the hoe that it can move hydraulically, but the log hangs up on something or the drag increases in any way, you could still break the hoe in a split second, because the tractor can pull harder than the hoe, and will if it's asked to, even if it's not intentional.