Long 680/reliability? suggestions?

[cmsedore]

I'm (sort of) unfortunately now in the market for a replacement for my Ford 1700 which gave it up earlier this week.

The local dealer we purchased it from now carries Zetor, Kioti, and Long. They only have smaller models of the Zetor and Kioti, but the Long tractors are carried up to the 680.

Is there a consensus on Long tractor reliability? Some searching on Kioti turned up reliability complaints, but I could not find much of anything about Long tractors. I liked the feel and some of the features of the Long, but reliability matters to me (this thing has to clear my 150' driveway for 4-5 months of the year, we get ~300" of snowfall annually). In addition to snow moving, I do a bit of log skidding, firewood processing, plowing/discing, hauling misc stuff around, etc.

It's been quite a while since I've looked at tractor prices, and I was a little shocked to see that I needed to spend $17-30k+ for a 30-60hp CUT with a loader. You can find the Long 680 for about $21k, and the specs are fairly impressive (~60hp, 4WD, FEL w/4000lbs lift) for those $$$. The longs run Mitsubishi diesel engines, which seem to enjoy a reasonable reputation.

I've looked at the Kubota L4310 and a couple JD models, but they're considerably more expensive for less capability (on paper anyway). I looked at the power-trac stuff (based on another thread on TBN), but I do wander into the woods quite a bit and the small (relatively speaking) tires concern me. I also have a fair investment in 3pt attachments I'd prefer to keep. The Ford 1700 I'm used to was only about 25hp, and about 1/2 to 1/3 the size needed for much of the work it did here for 20years. I'm hoping to get 20 years out of whatever is purchased this time around as well.

Comments and suggestions are quite welcome.

-Chris

 

[Anonymous Poster]

LONGTRAC 680

Tell the dealer you want to talk to a couple of existing customers that already own the 680...

Try to find someone that's had the unit for a period of time over 2 or 3 years {let that newness happy owner factor dissipate to real life...}

Check with other local dealer's in your area, be upfront and ask them..."I've got about $22k to spend... I need a 4WD 60 PTO hp tractor and loader... what do you have that fits the bill...?"

You can extend your range via the telephone with dealer's long distance from you... this should increase the options you have available to you...

 

[PaulT]

How DO you do it? You never seem to fail at coming up with a picture or two of the object in question. And not just a scanned magazine ad, either. Good quality, close up pics of the very article. We sure are lucky ot have you around here. Why don't you register?

 

[RichZ]

Paul, John IS registered. He just doesn't always appear as a registered TBN member. If he went on as a registered member for each of his posts, he would probably be in his own class. Actually he is anyway!!/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

Rich
"What a long strange trip it's been."

 

[Woodbeef]

Have you looked into Valtra yet?

Take a look at the Valtra 100 series. The 600 or 700 should be about the size you are looking for. The are a very dependable,overly built tractor. Many of the ones in Scandinavia do forestry duty during the winter months. The option list is staggering,and you have a choice of 10 different colors,4 of them being metallic.

Try these sites for Valtra info

www.valtra.com

www.kolumbus.fi/juha.metsapelto

 

[Jeff396]

Okay, apparently noone else is going to ask the question.....why am I seeing grass where I would expect to see floorboard? Is it like the Flinstone's car?

Jeff

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Jeff,

I think maybe it's the camera angle... more a closeup of the dash area...

But then again... Flintstones... interesting.../w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

 

[frank_f15]

YOU ARE AMAZING!!!! I KNOW A JOHN MILLER THAT IS JUST AS AMAZING, must be something in the name./w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[jimmoore]

What happened to the 1700? Can't it be repaired or overhauled? I have a 1980 1700 that I have overhauled the engine and replaced the clutch, it didn' cost me that much as I did the work myself.

 

[cmsedore]

Jim,

I was out snowblowing when it made a couple of 'unfortunate' noises inside the engine. Subsequently, it barely runs and makes a rather disturbing clanking sound (not on every engine rotation, but once every one - two seconds).

When I spoke with our dealer, they indiciated that I should expect $2000-3000 in repair costs. I have thought about doing it myself (I've replaced heads and intake manifolds on cars, done a variety of other mechanical work, etc). Never worked on diesels, though.

I was planning to replace the 1700 in a couple years and figured that I'd rather invest the time and money in a new machine. It needs some other repairs as well (new radiator, seals in the front axle, etc). My original plan was to purchase another tractor and leave this one for lawn mowing (and possibly assisting if I the larger one was stuck .

-Chris

 

[John_Mc]

Chris:

I'm curious. What is it that you are doing that you need to make the jump from 24 hp to 60 HP (and 2000+ lbs to over 4000lbs) ? Seems like quite a jump, unless you are changing the tasks you were doing (especially since you seem to be planning on keeping your existing implements).

 

[cmsedore]

John:

Well, I'd guess it comes from two things: The first is the number of tasks that I did with the 1700 that should have been done with someting considerably larger. The work I've done in the woods is case-in-point. On more than a few occassions, I had to beat the 1700 hard to get logs skidded out (chaining them to the draw bar and driving with the front wheels barely touching the ground w/brakes to steer). On at least two occassions, I pulled the tractor with wood wagon with my 4wd pickup because the tractor could not move it up an incline.

Some of the implements I have are/were too big for the 1700. It had trouble pulling a 2-bottom plow, when mowing with the 5' bush hog, you'd be cruising along at full throttle, hit a thorn tree and silence--the whole thing would stall. It couldn't make the relief clutch on the bush hog give. I also have a winch (I converted it from a dozer winch to 3pt, came with 5/8" cable) that I'm afraid will pull the tractor in half if whatever I'm winching catches on something.

Trying to move snow with the blower in the winter was sometimes frustrating--it couldn't push the 5' blower into the snow, the wheels would just spin.

The seoncd thing is that I just want a bigger machine . Some tasks (pulling stuck cars out of the driveway, etc) I don't even bother to try with the 1700 tractor--I know it won't move our cars (2 tons each) when stuck, and the (3 tons empty) truck is even more hopeless. If I want pulling ability right now, I use my Ford 4wd pickup, it will out-pull the tractor on any reasonable terrain 3 to 1.

-Chris

 

[EdKing]

Have you looked at the Long Landtrac's ? I recently purchased a LandTrac360DTC, with backhoe and front end loader for $22,000. I am very pleased with it's performance. The LandTrac's seem to have more standard features than the LongTrac's, also more lift capacity on the 3ph. Just this weekend I used my 360 to move a 56' x 12' mobile home up a slight incline to the level spot I prepared for it with the 360. Put it in Low 1st and it just chugged along. I have over 40 hrs on it and the only problem I have had was a broken hydraulic fitting on the front end loader. This was my fault, I was pushing a fallen tree (about 10 inch trunk diameter) and the trunk slid up off the bucket and snagged the elbow and broke it. Checked at the dealer for a replacement, he was out of that elbow so he offered to drive 20 miles to pick me one up. Called me back an hour later with the part, cost me about $2.

Ed

 

[jimmoore]

Do sound like you have serious internal engine problems!

 

[cmsedore]

Ed,

I did indeed take a look. The model the dealer had on hand was a 410DTC. Looks to be a nice machine with alot of bang for the buck. Are you happy with the transmission? If I recall correctly, it has synchronized gears and a shuttle for fwd/reverse...All the reading I've done in the past week or so has piqued my interest in a hydrostatic unit (Kubota L4610). My dealer doesn't like (or carry) HST units--he claims the maintenance is high (changing filters all the time) and ruggedness is not there. Do you like the transmission layout? Could you give your impression from your own experience? (mine is limited to non-syncro transmissions, though I could speed shift my 1700 If you can use the HST as agressively as I think I would, I'm really tempted by it (that is, push it forward into a snowbank, immediately reverse straight out, etc. This takes some time with a regular transmission, clutch/shift/clutch/brake/shift/clutch/shift/...)

He tried to steer me to the LandTracs. The stats on them are impressive, particular if you look at the weight difference between a similar Kubota or Deere--the LandTrac weighs about 1000lbs more (4400lbs). My dealer wanted just under $20k for the 410DTC with an Allied FEL. He claimed the Long loader for it was too large and that the Allied was a better match.

Here's the specs I grabbed from their web site before they took it off line (they're redoing it):

LandTrac 410 DTC Specifications

Engine (top) Mitsubishi Indirect Injection Diesel Engine
Engine Horsepower 41 HP
Number of cylinders 4
Bore and Stroke 3.46" X 3.74"
Total Displacement 141 cubic inches
Rate Speed (rpm) 2600
Fuel Tank Capacity 14.5 gallons
Cold Weather Starting Glow Plugs
Air Cleaner Dry Type with Replaceable Cartridge
Power Take Off (top) 540 RPM
PTO Horsepower 38
Operation Independent or Manual/ Switch Operated
PTO Clutch Electro-Hydraulic, Operated by switch on dash Panel
Shaft Diameter 1 3/8" (Six Spine)
Hydraulic System (top) Open Center
Flow gpm/psi 8.8 gpm/ 2400 psi
Lift Capacity 2976 lbs. @ 24" behind lower hitch pins
3 pt. Hitch Category II
Controls Position / Draft / Mixed
Remote Value (standard) Double Spool/Double Acting -- with two sets of outlets
Transmission (top) 8 Normal / 8 Creeper Forward -- 8 Normal / 8 Creeper Reverse
Main Gear Shift Full Synchronized 4 speeds
Range Selector High - Low
Creeper Gear Selector located on left of platform
Shuttle Selector Synchronized, Forward - Reverse
Forward Speed Range .1 - 12.9 MPH
Clutch 10.83" Dry Single Disc
Steering (top) Full Hydrostatic
Brakes (top) L & R Independent Oil Immersed Disc Brakes
Parking Brake: Operated off of service brake
Differential Lock (rear) (top) Foot Actuated - Mechanical
Electrical System (top)
Alternator 12V - 50 Amp
Battery 12V, 600 CCA
General Specifications (top) Dimensions with Standard Tire
Turning Radius 114.9" with brake/ 133.9" without brake
Length 137"
Width 61.8"
Height to top of ROPS 93"
Wheel Base 72.8"
Tire Sizes (Front/Rear) 8.3 x 20 (6 ply) / 12.4 x 28 (6 ply)
Weight with ROPS 4440 lbs.
Options Canopy, Front Weights


-Chris

 

[Anonymous Poster]

I've seen farmers around here running Longs and they seem happy with them.

Here's a suggestion out of the blue. Many people have never heard of a Unimog. Although they've been used as military trucks by foreign countries they were originally designed as universal tractors. Case imported them years ago.

The footprint of a Unimog is probably less than the Long you're looking at. The Case machines had 20 spd transmissions, three point hitches, hydraulic remotes FRONT and rear, ptos front, mid and rear and a 6 cyl. Mercedes diesel that cranked out 90hp. The reason I mention the Unimog is that they're excellent for plowing snow. Many bought snow blowers for them.


The Case Unimogs also were shift on the fly 4X4 and locking diffs. The thing is a goat. It'll handle slopes that will roll a tractor. The top road speed is about 45mph. In the lowest gear it will take about 75 minutes to go the length of a football field. I know of one farmer that uses one in his potato operation. He can drive to his fields quickly and still do the tractor stuff.

Cost wise a used Case diesel Unimog will be thousands less than the Long you're looking at. I've seen them go for $18,000 with the detachable backhoe option. There was also a FEL option. Around here the state bought them and installed boom mowers

 

[EdKing]

I think the transmission is different between the compact models (360 and lower) and the utility models.
I have 3 ranges, range shifter located left of seat. 12 foward, 6 reverse. It has a 4 speed shifter to the right of the steering coloumn, foward/reverse to the left. To change direction I just push in the clutch, pull the direction shifter back for reverse, push foward for foward. Very easy to use. I am very pleased with the performance of the tractor so far. The tranny shifts smothly between gears and direction, although the range selecter is unsyncronized, some times you have to ease it into the desired posistion when going to a lower range. I personaly prefer the manual over the HST, although I've never tried it in a large tractor. I have had experience with HST in lawn tractors, and found it jerky, hit a bump and your foot goes up or down and you change speed. Also a pain holding the pedal down when mowing a large area. I once rented a Terrimite T5B mini backhoe with loader and the HST on it was flat out hidieous. It had two ranges depending on how far you pushed the pedal down, and would jump between ranges an jerk and bounce. I also like the ruggedness of a manual transmission. It will give you plenty of warning as it starts to wear. Also it usually doesn't all go out at once, a HST just stops working. The specs are very impressive for the LandTracs, they have a higher lift capicity on the 3ph than any comparable tractor I've seen. At 2976lbs it's even higher than the LongTrac series. I have 42 hours on mine now and have had zero problems other than the hydraulic line I broke. I have a Long 5140 loader on mine, it's size seems to fit the 360 well, although the larger LandTrac at the dealer had a larger loader attached(don't remember the model).