LONG Water Line Question

[txdon]

I'm tired. I have been looking for a water leak for two days. The water line is my 2" line with slip connections every 20'. it is about 1/2 mile long. It is fed by a 3/4" nipple from the 6" county water supply. About two months ago there was a massive leak in the yard on the last slip joint. The last joint slipped out because the end of the line moved over the course of 7 years. I just dug up the last 20 feet and slipped it back together.

Yesterday I noticed the little wheel in the meter was turning slowly, about a revolution per 30 seconds. I calculated about 100 gallons a day. I watched it for about ten minutes and thought I have a leak. I walked all lines and no wet ground. I turned off all the 5 - 3/4" lines attached to my main 2" and the wheel was still moving. I am thinking I now have the leak isolated to the 2"line. I then, with the box blade scraped the grass off of the 2" water line to see if I could see a wet spot. No wet spot. The wheel is still turning. Today I started hand digging every 20' to find out which slip joint is leaking. So far there are no leaks I did about 1 tenth of the line. So this afternoon I go and Look at the wheel and it is not moving - no leak!! or is it just that the outside temperature (80 degrees) expanded the PVC back into the slip joint????
I then turn on a faucet for 5 seconds and let out a 1/2 gallon of water. The wheel moves for ten minutes and and then slowly stops.

This evening we use the water (showers) and then don't use it for 1 1/2 hours. The wheel is still moving.

My question how long does the water go though the meter after use before the pressure is equalized?

Am I looking for a leak that does not exist???? Does the pressure take hours to equalize? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

We just started using the cabin full time this month so I don't have an average gallon usage to compare with.

Thanks.

 

[YanmarFever]

Don, I think your meter might be faulty, why dont you call the water co. and ask them for an opinion on their meter?

You might be digging up your turf for nothing.
good luck
Ernie

 

[txdon]

tractorErnie. I thought that also, but then, I have a cut-off 1 foot past the meter and when I turn it off the wheel stops. So I ruled out a faulty meter. Thanks.

 

[3RRL]

Don,
I would guess you have a leak alright. Water lines should not "get up to pressure" so to speak. They are like hydraulic lines and should run when the valve is open and stop when the valve is closed. Unless there's air or a leak in the lines, it should stop right after you turn all the valves off, like when you turn your big valve off at the main.

Do you have any other place that uses water off those lines that might be running?

 

[YanmarFever]

How about some type of moisture meter, or a core sample tool ?
I dont believe in water witching.
Ernie

 

[Egon]

Kinda hate to say this but is there any way to increase the line pressure to kinda help the leak along.

Not knowing where the leak is can you dig up the pipe at the midpoint and shut it off. This will tell you which side the leak is on. Then do the same over and over till its located.

Have you considered line relacement?

Egon

 

[ToadHill]

Many years ago I worked in the summer for the local water department. They had some kind of a device with a probe to stick into the ground and listen for running water. Perhaps of you call the local water department they may have something like it.

 

[jinman]

Don, with that type of "slip" connection, it seems to me you have a possibility of many, many small leaks. After all, if it leaked in one spot, couldn't it leak in others? Maybe the temperature of the water and ground has a lot to do with leaks. As the water lays there in the shallow line, it heats up and seals the joints. When cool water from the main feed comes in, it cools the line and it leaks slightly. This is not what you wanted to hear, but I think it's possible. Such small leaks would go undetected on the surface. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

 

[ByronBob]

Time to get on the phone to the water co. and see what they can do for you....

 

[Jimbrown]

It almost looks like you are saying that the slip joints are not glued together. Surly that is not true. Check your commodes. Mine almost always get dirt in the valves when I work on the water line and run untill I clean them.

 

[EddieWalker]

Hi Don,

I had a house that sat at the bottom of a hill. The water line was 1,200 feet.

The house was empty, but the water had been turned on for seveal months. One month I got a bill saying I'd uses 26,000 gallons of water!!!!

The water department said I had a leak and it was my responsibility. I called in a leak detector who said he could start checking, but doubted he'd find it. According to him, some lines have lots of little leaks and individually each one is too small to find, but collectively they all add up to allot of water comeing out.

The original installer used thin wall 1 inch pvc.

I also did a preasure test at the house and the water preasure was over 100 pounds. The length of the run and elevation drop increased the water preasure over 20 pounds from the meter!!!

I was also told by my local water district that too much preasure on toilets will cause the water to keep running. It just pushes the water past the valve into the bowl. This isn't your problem since you turned off the valve and the meter is stil running.

Another thing he said was that in some water districts, the pumps create a surge effect on their water mains. This can be seen with a guage as preasure increase and decreases. If you don't have a backflow valve at the meter, it will increase your reading without you using any water.

It happens like this. Water is forced into your long line past the meter by the surge, or high preasure. This is recoreded ont the meter as water passing through.

When the water preasure drops, it goes back through the meter to the mains, but this isn't recorded on the meter. This can go on for days, or in my case weeks at a time.

I was able to show this to that water district and force them to install a backflow valve and new meter. But they wouldn't give in on the leak and forced me to pay the bill and replace the pipe. 1,200 feet of new schedule 40 pipe is a pain in the but!!!!

Hope this helps in some way,
Eddie

 

[turnkey4099]

I've been wondering the same thing. Not saying they don't exist but I have never heard or seen a pressure line laid with just unglued "slip" joints.

Harry K

 

[HammerFour]

I think he means the pipes with built in flared sections and o-rings. A lot of water mains are laid with this type of pipe now, I assume to allow for some movement of the pipe while still keeping the pipe sealed.

 

[txdon]

Hammerfour you are right! You install this type of line with lubricant instead of glue. The flare is about 5 1/2" (see attachment) after the O-ring and a certain amount of slip is OK.

I woke up this morning before any water use and the meter was still moving. This afternoon it has stopped again. This means to me that one slip joint or more is not sealing someplace, which means continue to dig. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

 

[txdon]

And dig and dig and dig.......

 

[txdon]

I think I'm nearing the 1/2 mark. I can see the front road. The first half was sand the next half is black gumbo, a bit slower. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

 

[txdon]

Here is a picture from the meter to the cabin.

Some people pay money to a gym to get the kind of workout I'm getting. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[HammerFour]

How about cutting the line at midpoint and putting a shutoff in to help isolate the problem? Or are you going to keep digging joints until you find the wet one?

I hate to mention it and it doesn't seem likely, but you could also have a failure in a section of pipe itself between the joints, maybe a rock put pressure on it and made a small crack....hopefully it's just a leak at a joint and you find it in the next hole you dig.

How do you stop that type of joint from leaking ( if you find one leaking I mean )? Was the last one caused by the pipe pulling out of the slip joint?

 

[RonR]

We had a broken line; the water company had a guy come out with a 4 ft long piece of 1/2" rod. He could push it into the ground, and when he hit where the leak was, it went down like a hot knife in butter!

Rather than dig, I'd get a hunk of rod and start pushing.............

ron

 

[DUMBDOG]

Not to make light of your problems, which I can see can be very exasperating, but I will pass on some words of wisdom that my mother used to say to me when I could not find something.

<font color="blue"> It will be in the last place that you look.</font>

Guess it did not make a lot sense to me then or now. However I still do remember her fondly.