Buying Advice Looking at Kiotis

[TJP89]

Hi everyone,

I found this site a while back and it's been a great help with search for a tractor. I'm finally down to my last "contestants", and I need some advice.

First off. I'm situated on about 30 acres, mostly wooded but with some open field areas. For about the last 2 months I've been looking for a tractor to do general utility work around the property. Loader work, snowplowing, hauling, brushhogging, etc. No finish mowing or anything like that, so weight is good, as is anything that adds traction. I've been looking in the 30 to 40 HP class and from I've seen and heard, it seems to be the right one for me. When the H started acting up and being unpredictable, I decided it was time to get a brand new CUT that would last a lifetime. With no brand bias I have looked every tractor manufacturer with a dealer in the LP of MI. I've now brought it down to 2 Kiotis.

CK35 HST w/ loader. This tractor seems right at my preferred power range with enough little extras to make it comfortable, but not loaded to unnecessary costs. It also fits well size wise and has very good capacities in all respects. The one big downside is the live PTO. Because of this there is a clutch, and the brakes and HST pedal are all on one side, with the HST pedal being the treadle as opposed to my preferred separate dual. So no brake assisted turns, and stopping everything to engage/disengage the PTO. No deal breakers here, just annoying, but setup is comfortable to me and I like the idea of being able to stop everything quickly with the clutch. Price = 21600 (finaced) w/ Ags and loader delivered.

DK45 HST w/ loader. I was actually looking for a DK40 but there was not one to be found and the dealer suggested the 45. Obviously it has a lot more power than the CK, but also optioned out a little more and it has an Independent PTO, no clutch, and thus avoids the pedal mixup on the CK. However, it is quite a bit bigger, especially with wise. I would be bumped up from 60" implements to 72" implements. The problem here is there are quite a few tight spots in the woods, where 60 is tight, and 72 impossible. I'll have to do quite some widening either way, but with the 72" tractor, there would be spots I couldn't get to at all. As much of my work is in the woods, this is not desirable. But I'm tempted by the power and standard features of the DK. Price = 24600 (finaced) w/ Ags and loader.

So, do I want a more basic but perfectly capable tractor that I can get anywhere, or a bigger more deluxe tractor that may not get into someplaces? The price difference is negligible to me at this point, and I'm completely torn. Please advise.

 

[murphy1244]

Also a big difference in FEL capability. 2760 lbs of lift on the DK.

 

[jtygoku]

Self-admitted bias here but since you are considering both, I think you'll always be wondering if you go with the smaller - especially if you get into a situation where a little extra grunt would come in real handy. Sure, my DK is a little big to get into some of my tight locations but I've always figured out something - and that muscle has come in handy clearing and grubbing some of those tighter locations into more manageable areas.

 

[SSdoxie]

No way anyone can tell which way to go, but here are some points of interest between the DK & CK.
Live versus Independent PTO. You can shut either one off without touching the clutch on the CK. Turning ON - with DK there is no way to ease it in, you have to idle down, engage then throttle up but here will always be bit of sudden impact/turning. With clutch on CK you can ease the clutch in at any RPM, but good operation would be at a low speed with enough power to keep from lugging engine.
Ability to have split brakes with the 2 pedal system on the DK is an advantage in tight quarters, however using the 4WD on both models tends to let the front wheels pull the tractor around in tighter turn radius (front wheels turn slightly faster than rear in 4WD).
Mention AG tires on both - Ag rims have 4 position width adjustment on both CK & DK. You could adjust the DK narrower or the CK wider, what ever you needed. They both come set in the #3, next to widest width.
Big difference in the loader capacity specs but that stands to reason considering the longer & wider wheel base of the DK. Max weight @ full lift takes into consideration the stability of the tractor with a load that high in the air. The CK with KL130 loader has loader breakout force of 2046#, meaning it has the hydraulic plus mechanical leverage to lift 1 ton off the ground, the rest is stability. Going back to wheel width adjustments - narrowing the wheel width will reduce the weight @ max lift spec of the loader and widening increases it. The specs are written around the "standard" tractor with AG tires @ #3 wheel width position as comes from factory.

I have the Albino/white version of the CK27 so I might be a little bias. I do prefer the Live PTO w/clutch for engagement of post hole digger and bushhog cutter. And having the clutch there for emergency stop everything is nice, have used it several times. If I had to the chance to change or redesign anything on that tractor I would put the treadle peddle on the left side by the clutch so I could still use the clutch but have independent wheel brakes.

 

[k0ua]

I can tell you this much., the split brakes work nice with the dual pedals on the right and the split brakes on the left. I have used them many times on my DK.

 

[Coyote machine]

DK, since $ are not your main consideration, and what the guys above just said in detail. DK is best of line to the NX, (newer bigger) which you don't need.

 

[coobie]

Hi everyone,

I found this site a while back and it's been a great help with search for a tractor. I'm finally down to my last "contestants", and I need some advice.

First off. I'm situated on about 30 acres, mostly wooded but with some open field areas. For about the last 2 months I've been looking for a tractor to do general utility work around the property. Loader work, snowplowing, hauling, brushhogging, etc. No finish mowing or anything like that, so weight is good, as is anything that adds traction. I've been looking in the 30 to 40 HP class and from I've seen and heard, it seems to be the right one for me. When the H started acting up and being unpredictable, I decided it was time to get a brand new CUT that would last a lifetime. With no brand bias I have looked every tractor manufacturer with a dealer in the LP of MI. I've now brought it down to 2 Kiotis.

CK35 HST w/ loader. This tractor seems right at my preferred power range with enough little extras to make it comfortable, but not loaded to unnecessary costs. It also fits well size wise and has very good capacities in all respects. The one big downside is the live PTO. Because of this there is a clutch, and the brakes and HST pedal are all on one side, with the HST pedal being the treadle as opposed to my preferred separate dual. So no brake assisted turns, and stopping everything to engage/disengage the PTO. No deal breakers here, just annoying, but setup is comfortable to me and I like the idea of being able to stop everything quickly with the clutch. Price = 21600 (finaced) w/ Ags and loader delivered.

DK45 HST w/ loader. I was actually looking for a DK40 but there was not one to be found and the dealer suggested the 45. Obviously it has a lot more power than the CK, but also optioned out a little more and it has an Independent PTO, no clutch, and thus avoids the pedal mixup on the CK. However, it is quite a bit bigger, especially with wise. I would be bumped up from 60" implements to 72" implements. The problem here is there are quite a few tight spots in the woods, where 60 is tight, and 72 impossible. I'll have to do quite some widening either way, but with the 72" tractor, there would be spots I couldn't get to at all. As much of my work is in the woods, this is not desirable. But I'm tempted by the power and standard features of the DK. Price = 24600 (finaced) w/ Ags and loader.

So, do I want a more basic but perfectly capable tractor that I can get anywhere, or a bigger more deluxe tractor that may not get into someplaces? The price difference is negligible to me at this point, and I'm completely torn. Please advise.

Make sure to visit Michigan Iron and equipment located in Morris MI.They gave me the best price when I purchased my DK40 cab tractor.

 

[Msamt]

I was inches away from a CK30, ended up with a DK45. No regrets, but since I finish mow5 acres, there are times a lighter tractor would be better. Then I look at the mess I need to clear from logging inmy other 5 acres, and I know the extra capacity, traction, an HP is worth it. I paid 25k for my HST DK with loaded rears and diverter for a grapple last year btw. I hear the DK and CK's are getting hard to come by, so you better act fast. Good luck, isnt shopping for tractors fun?

 

[phiferpharm]

Good luck with your new tractor hunt. I just had to spend my first repair $$$ on my DK after 2+ years and 400+ hours. The $59 I spent for a new PTO switch was reasonable I thought. The tractor has proved to be a really good value for the money and the style of controls on the DK series are very user-friendly.

 

[tman1020]

I recently purchased the bobcat version of the CK 27 and am very pleased with it when I went to this tractor I had to upgrade all of my implements from 4 foot to 5 and 6 foot implements and was very concerned about the width of those on my property. I did have to widen some trails and things but for the most part it wasn't much of a problem and I found that the larger size tractor was a huge plus from my old tractor. My tractor does everything I ever ask of it and mine only has the 27 hp. However I have heard time and time again that if you are debating between two sizes you should always opt for the larger size. In my opinion on the choice between these two tractors the deciding factor for me would be whether or not you need the larger loader capacity. I have been hard-pressed to find something that my mine won't lift. As far as the brakes go yeah they're kind of nice being able to use if you can but I haven't really found myself missing the ability to use the individual breaks for turning on account of the hydrostat being so fast to operate. Either way doesn't sound like you'll be disappointed.

 

[boggen]

duel rear stearing brakes would be deal breaker for me. from back dragging, to snow, to just plain traction in mud and getting my rear un stuck.

differential lock, 4x4 / MFWD. ya ya... give me control over spin of tires so i can work my rear free to freedom vs walking home.

and more to the point make it so i can use both feet one for pedal and one on the go pedal/ hst pedal / fuel pedal.

run to many hills, to many muddy spots, to much snow. and working the pedals and the pedal works better than 4x4 / mfwd and/or differential lock many times for me. granted i still have used FEL and backhoe to get me out of worst situations yet. *looks innocent*

live vs independent PTO. *shrugs* i can live with that. tilling a garden about only issue for me would come up. rotatory cutter, PHD (post hole digger), doesn't really matter one way or another.
rotatory cutter i am setting PTO on and mowing for a few hours non stop, and PHD, backing up / moving forward, then stopping, to set the digger and then going with it.

===============
going smaller and getting all the little extra options....

bigger altenator
extra hyd remotes on rear
extra hyd for FEL
upper front and rear lights on ROPS
TNT (top n tilt) for 3pt hitch.
extra piece of attachment (3pt hitch or for fel)

those extras can make life easier and many jobs easier and quicker. vs going over your tracks multi times with a basic tractor without the extras.

granted bigger tractor is all good. just saying. it may not be ideal.

 

[TJP89]

Thanks for the replies. I see most of you are saying bigger, although only one person has actually addressed the size issue. The DK capacities are pretty impressive, and that's definitely a factor. Clearing space isn't a worry, I have to do it whatever I end up with, but with a 72" bucket, I think I need to clear some good size trees or do some serious rerouting. The issue is that the guy before me maintained the property and trails with a 42" garden tractor, so getting real equipment back there is a challenge. I'm going to check all the possible clearances in the woods today, and if there's anyway with the DK, that's what I'll do. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the CK should have plenty of power for my purposes, but the DK would just really insure that I never run out of power.

The dealer situation is interesting, as the CK price is from a dealer near Jackson, but the DK is from MIE.

Thanks for your help

 

[worthb]

I had to make the same decision. I chose the CK 35 HST. The DK was just too big for me to squeeze through the trees or to transport. I am happy with my decision. The loader could use more lift, but it sure beats what I had.

 

[k0ua]

Some of the big differences is ease of use, the DK is more deluxe in its controls, it is a joy to operate the DK. The loader lift, is well over a 2 to 1 ratio in favor of the DK. I don't know if you intend to lift any large loads, but most people find they come up against the loader lift capability all the time. In other words, there is always a "bigger rock" you want to lift. Keep in mind you can always get a smaller bucket for the DK, I have a smaller 60 inch Kubota bucket for my DK, it is handy when working around tight clearances. Of course your rear wheels need watching too, but sometimes if you have on a smaller bucket, you steering "swings" are more controllable. As for clearances in the woods, I make my own clearances. You will have a big powerful tractor, push out some of those pesky trees. It is what I do.

You need to spend some time with the treadle pedal vs. the twin pedals. Some people just cant get used to the treadle pedal, it is not problem for others. I have never heard anyone having trouble with the twin pedal setup. It is just a matter of personal preference.

 

[Threepoint]

Thanks for the replies. I see most of you are saying bigger, although only one person has actually addressed the size issue. The DK capacities are pretty impressive, and that's definitely a factor. Clearing space isn't a worry, I have to do it whatever I end up with, but with a 72" bucket, I think I need to clear some good size trees or do some serious rerouting. The issue is that the guy before me maintained the property and trails with a 42" garden tractor, so getting real equipment back there is a challenge. I'm going to check all the possible clearances in the woods today, and if there's anyway with the DK, that's what I'll do. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the CK should have plenty of power for my purposes, but the DK would just really insure that I never run out of power.

The dealer situation is interesting, as the CK price is from a dealer near Jackson, but the DK is from MIE.

Thanks for your help

Focusing only on the size issue, your property is mostly wooded, and you evidently plan to keep it that way. So you're right to worry about maneuverability. I have a Kubota B2150 open-station that I can't imagine doing without for tight spots. Not just in the woods. Our NX4510 has a cab, but even if it were open-station, it would just be a pain to try to get into tight places. It's also not just a matter of having 72" of clearance for the loader bucket. The bigger frame means a bigger turning radius, and less overall maneuverability, even if you can fit between obstacles.

That said, I'm guessing that in all the cases of "woulda, coulda, shoulda" among tractor buyers, more folks wished they'd gone with the next size or two up, rather than down.

 

[Coyote machine]

I don't know your CK dealer but I do know MIE, and that's who I would buy any model Kioti from in your area. They have a stellar reputation and support. Bob and his son are great people to deal with.
If you get the DK you will be able to do anything you need to, including making tractor sized paths. For the $ difference the DK is much more tractor. I've never uncoupled the brakes to use them for turning. I use the fwd/rev pedals and a 'suicide' wheel on the steering wheel. I can turn faster than an Indy 500 race car making a left!:laughing:

 

[coobie]

I don't know your CK dealer but I do know MIE, and that's who I would buy any model Kioti from in your area. They have a stellar reputation and support. Bob and his son are great people to deal with.
If you get the DK you will be able to do anything you need to, including making tractor sized paths. For the $ difference the DK is much more tractor. I've never uncoupled the brakes to use them for turning. I use the fwd/rev pedals and a 'suicide' wheel on the steering wheel. I can turn faster than an Indy 500 race car making a left!:laughing:

++1 about buying from MIE.I have had outstanding sales and service from them.

 

[k0ua]

Here is an example of using your split brakes:

Say you need to grade dirt with your FEL right up against a house foundation. But you tractor is on a fair side slope that pitches the tractor away from the foundation. As you grade you front end will become light making the front steering less effective. You tractor will want to "run down hill" all the time away from the foundation. Using your steering brakes lightly, just apply a little "rudder to port" say with you left steering brake if the hill slopes to your right, and you will slew the bucket to the left to stay up near the foundation. It takes very little braking to drag one rear wheel just a bit to make the tractor slew slightly to stay on course.

That is only one use, of course when pushing snow, you will often need the split brakes when you are pushing a front blade or bucket or pulling a rear blade you will often be skewed sideways by the action of the blade, just give it some brake on the proper side to counteract the forces of gravity pushing the tractors sideways.

Of course split brakes can also be usefull for the original purpose of making your turning radius shorter when you are attempting to miss an obstacle in front of you.

Another use for split brakes, is they are sometimes more effective to get unstuck than the differential lock. The advantage is they can be engages at higher wheel speeds, and sometime you want to "screw the tractor sideways", something the differential lock function cannot do.

As an example say you are stuck in a mudhole, and the rescue vehicle can only get a recovery line on you at near a right angle. You can make the tractor "screw itself out of the hole" by say giving it some "hard right rudder" to stop say the right wheel from spinning at all, and making the other tire shove the front of the tractor in the direction that the recovery line is pointing. Of course you need to crank the steering wheel as far as possible in that direction also. These are just some of the uses of split turning brakes.

 

[TJP89]

You guys are clearly big on the split brakes. I already am on that boat as the H has split brakes and I don't think I could handle it without them. I also see the point of if I have a 45 HP tractor there isn't a whole lot I can't push over. But I did make it through the woods today. With some decent clearing, I could get the CK with 60" bucket and mower through to most places. Now some places I could do the same for the 72" DK. But there are a lot of places that I HAVE to get through that are constricted by either huge (2' thick, 80' tall) trees, or this stone wall made of the biggest rocks I've ever seen. The trees I couldn't get down if I wanted to, the rocks, maybe, but with a ton of work. Thus unfortunately 60" is the maximum I can get through. I see k0ua's point of getting smaller implements, but I think I would want 72" on the DK, and 2 sets of implements is something I don't have the money or space for. Now, I've sat on both tractors. The DK is nice, but I'm comfortable with the CK as well. The treadle doesn't bother me, unlike other treadles I've seen, but the brake placement is bad. You can use them with the cruise, but why Kioti didn't put the clutch with the treadle on the right and the brakes on the left is beyond me. The independent PTO isn't a problem as I've got to throttle down anyway to engage/disengage.

It seems that it comes down to either the brakes and power of the DK, and doing some serious wood work, or no brakes with less power but access everywhere.

In dealers, MIE has been great to work with, Budd's All Tractor has also been great, they have given more personal attention than MIE, but that's just because their a smaller younger dealer. I feel comfortable with both, so that is not an issue.

I won't be doing any serious earth moving or consistently going through mud, so I hope no fancy brake work will be necessary, I like split brakes but they are not an absolute necessity. Also, let's remember that it's not like the CK only has 1 brake, they're split, just hard, but probably not impossible to use.

I think it comes down to will the CK do everything I want. If it will, I'll probably go with it, otherwise it'll be the DK and I'll just figure something out with the with (like a 2nd tractor )

Sorry for the long post, but I would appreciate it if you guys would weigh in on the above question.

Thanks,
Tony

 

[k0ua]

Bottom line is the one your feel the most comfortable with and you like the best is the one you should get.