Looking For A Gas Compact Tractor with loader and Mid Mount Mower

Gary Fowler · Sep 20, 2014

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wolc123 said:
One thing is for sure. Most of us will see how this all turns out in the next several years. It probably wouldn't be a bad idea to drain middle-east dry of oil before the big CNG changeover takes place, assuming our environment can stand that additional abuse. Calculations like the above, to show how CNG is "impossible" will at least stem the tide a bit for the simple-minded. You just cant stop the cream from rising to the top however.

Yeah, calling CNG cream is about like milking a bull. You may get some cream, but it wont be the kind you want.:laughing
Using CNG is about as feasible as using water for fuel and converting it to H2. It takes more energy than it produces.
Not everyone has a NG pipeline running thru his farm that he can tap into or even low pressure residential NG supply. It isn't going to happen in 5year or 20 years. Not much is going to happen to our current technology until we exhaust cheap oil supplies and per estimates that is at least 50 years away or more based on current known supply and future needs.
The only reason we are using LNG is because of government mandates to not flare it, therefore countries like Nigeria who have no use for natural gas have committed a few billion dollars to build some NG liquefaction facilities and export the gas. Also they are building some natural gas to liquid conversion facilities that convert their over abundance of natural gas to a product that is similar to diesel. I know this is happening because I worked at both types of these facilities in Peru, Nigeria & Algeria. Almost all oil producing nations are doing this exact same thing.

Utopia Texas · Sep 20, 2014

wolc123 said:
So your Dad and many Farmers have the know how and equipment to compress, liquefy and store natural gas from their own property? I have my doubts.....

You'd be surprised how much know-how those "Farmers" have. In this case, they don't even need it, as CNG compressors are currently available for home use and are AC-electric powered at an energy cost about the same as a clothes-dryer. They use low-pressure Natural Gas right out of your well (or home gas line). Tanks for gas storage is already included as part of the $4k conversion cost on a 1/2 ton pickup truck. You just pump directly to the truck's (or tractor's) on-board tanks. As I type, the "big-boys" over at GE are working on a home-use CNG compressor that has an estimated retail price of $500.

So, for a $4,500 investment, you could kiss your diesel fuel good-by. Again, 5 years from now, it is hard to see where a diesel engine is going to be worth much over scrap value. I certainly would not consider buying another now, especially as power-robbing emission regulations (tier 4, etc.), and diesel fuel sulfur reduction are being forced upon us. There are not many fuels that burn cleaner than Natural Gas, and the proven reserves, in North America alone, are many hundreds of years.

Anyone with a well, could even take it a step further, making his own electric from the low pressure natural gas with a natural-gas generator (again, relatively inexpensive). All the energy needed by the farm could be made on the farm, just like it was when we used horses to pull our plows.

The only thing we are lacking now is a source for new CNG powered tractor's. Maybe I just have to "high-jack" one of them brand-new garbage trucks and swap motors with my brand-new John Deere. I think the people needing the additional know-how are the tractor manufacturers.

I suppose one would have to have a natural gas well on their property tested before one could compress it themselves due to impurities. Most of the natural gas wells in my part of Texas have extremely high percentages of sulphur which comes with the gas. So much so that many well heads are covered in yellow colored sulphur and if the wells are not self pressurized enough the small pumps used to help bring the gas to the surface have to have the pistons and rings thrown out on a regular basis to keep the pumps working. Besides pulling the natural gas from the ground these pumps actually run off the gas straight from the well. I also wonder what the legal ramifications of pulling natural gas out of the ground might be even if it is on your own property. ALL petroleum products taken from the ground, at least here in Texas, are regulated by the Rail Road Commission I believe whether one likes it or not. Uncle Sam wants his taxes you know......

wolc123 · Sep 20, 2014

My dad still has grandpa's original horse-replacer (18 drawbar hp, 2 cyl, John-Deere M tractor). He don't use that much anymore and hasn't even started it in over a year. Just for kicks, I think I will try and convert that little tractor to run on CNG, assuming I can get ahold of one of them $500 compressors. It is badly in need of an overhaul anyhow. I have already decided that my next, new gasoline pickup will be converted to CNG (I know for certain that only costs about $4000, or about the same as the additional cost of a diesel engine on a pickup). I have a good friend who did it a couple years ago and he absolutely loves it. The twin tanks are so well incorporated below the box that you don't even know they are there. He got his CNG at the few and far between filling stations at first, but now runs his own home compressor. Just the peace of mind of getting out of that vise that the big oil companies and middle east terrorists have us in now is more than enough to convince me to move ahead with it. I don't think the amount of NG coming out of dad's well is going to be affected much by terrorist acts, government hoarding, etc..

Some of our old, small, 50+ year-old gasoline tractors are still worth a pretty good buck today (probably not that M, which is about as worn as a tractor can be, yet still starts and moves ok). I wonder what today's little compact diesels will be worth in 50 years when the well runs dry. I don't believe anything I read on the internet, and you can throw all the calculations at me you want with no effect. I ain't from Missouri, but I have to see it with my own eyes to believe it.

I have stacked wood into the bed of my buddies CNG pickup, and I have seen the smile on his face, when the rest of us got bent over at the gasoline/diesel pumps due to some little "flare-up" in the middle east. His boy was killed there over that crap and I don't blame him in the least for shaking that oil demon off his back. There is enough energy in this country for a very long time, and to fight over what's over there don't make any sense to me.

WM75Guy · Sep 21, 2014

I hope they have improved fuel mileage and capacity. A city next to the one I worked for bought a GM CNG only pickup for the Water department when there was a mandate for purchasing alternative fuel vehicles. It could only go 100 miles on a tank of CNG. Until there is a better retail distribution system it will not work except as a niche market. The federal government accepts 20% biodiesel, E85, electric vehicles, and hybrids as alternative fuel vehicles. Does not say they have to run on it, just be capable. That's the way fleet sales are going.

Gary Fowler · Sep 21, 2014

repowell said:
I hope they have improved fuel mileage and capacity. A city next to the one I worked for bought a GM CNG only pickup for the Water department when there was a mandate for purchasing alternative fuel vehicles. It could only go 100 miles on a tank of CNG. Until there is a better retail distribution system it will not work except as a niche market. The federal government accepts 20% biodiesel, E85, electric vehicles, and hybrids as alternative fuel vehicles. Does not say they have to run on it, just be capable. That's the way fleet sales are going.

Since I live 20-30 miles from towns I do business in, that would mean a refuel everytime I went to town. I don't think so.
Any idea how long a refuel takes on CNG. I guess it would depend on the compressor's capacity.

wolc123 · Sep 21, 2014

The next time I see my buddy I will ask him what kind of range he can get on his 1/2 ton, Ford CNG-converted pickup. I know he can also run it on gasoline, and he may need to use a little of that fuel each time he starts the engine. The dual/fuel capability eliminates the worry of not being able to locate a remote fueling source. A couple years ago, I worked with him at a camp about 75 mi south, and he at least got all the way there on the CNG. I am not sure if he had enough to get home. The twin tanks were designed to fit inside the and under the standard Ford Extended Cab, Short box. I will guess that his CNG range is in the 150 - 250 mi. ballpark. The several days we spent at camp, he did most of the running around with his truck on CNG the whole time. The rest of us were reluctant to drive at that time because gasoline had spiked then, and we were short on cash. He just loved driving us around in his CNG truck, trying to "rub it in" I suppose.

MossRoad · Sep 21, 2014

Guys, how about starting a new discussion on the natural gas topic and get some answers to the original poster's questions about a gas tractor with a mid-mount mower. Let's just assume he means gasoline and even if he doesn't, he can clarify if he ever responds.... Thanks.:thumbsup: