Looking for subcompact TLB - recommendations?

jim_wilson · Jun 16, 2004

I have started my search for what I believe is the proper piece of equipment for jobs I have at hand. I have a 1/2 acre lot that I need to do significant landscaping, dig out a driveway, dig out garage foundation, and put in drainage pipes as well as other odds and ends jobs. After having looking at all the other options: renting bobcats and trackhoes, paying somebody else to do it, and buying a piece of equipment myself. I have come to the conclusion that a sub-compact type TLB is the way to go. So far I have looked at the Kubota BX23 and the Massey Ferguson GC2310TLB. I heading over to the Kioti dealer this morning to check out what I believe would be their comparable offering - the CK20HST. I also looked at the NH TC30/33 on their website but that is probably going to fall outside my $$ range. I would like to hear any recommendations, observations, etc. that anybody has - any other units I should look at? How important is dealer service with these? For instance I have owned Honda cars for years and frankly dont think that dealer service is all that important for them because the darn things never break. Are tractors in general the same way or do things regularly break/need replacing? I am a tractor neophyte so any help you can give is greatly appreciated. This site is great by the way - tons of good info.

Bob_Skurka · Jun 16, 2004

The Kioti CK20 is a compact tractor, has double the ground clearance of a sub-compact but it is still a small tractor.

Of the choices between a CK20, a Massey or a BX series Kubota, my first choice would probably be the CK20 followed closely by the Massey GC units assuming you plan on doing pretty equal amounts of "tractoring" and "lawn mowing" duties. Both of those tractors have a better 3pt hitch arrangement than the BX series. The BX is the tractor that really started the whole category, it is an excellent machine, I simply don't like the 3pt arrangement.

If my primary job was "lawn mowing," then I would switch my choices and go for the Massey first, the Kioti second. The Massey will sit lower to the ground and is more like a garden tractor in that the center of gravity will be lower and the overall height at the top of the ROPS will likely be lower making it easier to fit under low tree branches and up against your wife's ornamental plantings.

I think that from a PRACTICAL standpoint the 3 tractors are fairly equal. If one of them was being sold by a dealership that really treated me well and 2 were at average to below average dealers, of if one dealer was significantly closer than the other dealers, then I would likely buy from the dealership that was closer and treated me well.

Understand the Kioti is going to be more of a "tractor" because it really doesn't fit into the Sub-CUT class. You also mentioned the NH TC30-33, those tractors are DOUBLE the size of the other tractors you mentioned.

Given your lot size, I would seriously look at the turning radius, the tighter the tractor turns, and the smaller it is, the better off you will probably be in the LONG run. The Kioti will likely be best for construction work. But after that first year or two, you will want the smallest unit that mows the best and turns the tightest.

sweettractors · Jun 16, 2004

Your profile does not give your location. We may be able to help with the Kioti?--If you would like a quote, Email glsweet@scrtc.com and mention to Greg, that you are a TBN guy and to make you a good deal--Ken Sweet
Sweet Farm Equipment LLC *New Italian made D&G 3 point (self contained) Backhoes $4500*

jim_wilson · Jun 16, 2004

Thanks for the info. I actually plan on buying whatever I get without a mower deck. The lawn that I have left after I am done with all the construction work will be easily mowable with a push mower. I wasnt sure of the size on the TC30 - sounds like that is bigger than I want. Whatever I get will be mostly used for equal amounts backhoe and loader work. I have seen the postings about the 3pt on the BX23 so I was aware that was a potential problem. Why would you recommend the Massey GC over the BX other than for the 3 point? The biggest downside on the whole GC tractor that I saw was the backhoe bucket did not have replaceable teeth like the BX23 - the bucket on the BX23 looked beefier all around than the GC. The Massey has dual loader bucket cylinders against the BX's single - does that really matter?

jim_wilson · Jun 16, 2004

I am located in Massachusetts - thats why I was looking at the buckets on the backhoes with particular interest. I know from previous digging on my property that probably every bucketful is going to pull out a decent size rock. I have probably dug out and moved about 15-20 yards of soil already by the old fashioned pick, shovel, and wheelbarrow method but that is getting old fast which is why I am looking for a tractor. I think Kentucky would be a bit of a drive for me but thanks for the offer sweettractors!

Bob_Skurka · Jun 16, 2004

Well now that we know a bit more about your needs, I would probably guess that you will sell the tractor after you finish your construction? Based on the fact that you are not mowing, I would go with the unit that was lowest priced. As I said earlier, the BX is an excellent machine, the only think I don't like is the 3pt hitch arrangement and the size of 3pt hitch. If those are not issues to you then there are no problems with the unit. All 3 are fine machines.

RobS · Jun 16, 2004

I'm going to throw out a wild card Jim but it's one I know nothing about. Ever heard of a Terramite ? It's a small TLB that I see often on rental lots. Never hear much about them but maybe someone can provide some info /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Dave___in___CT · Jun 16, 2004

Jim...

Have you considered a used TLB ? ...perhaps a CUT... ...will be a more economical way to go...

Usually some for sale in the CT MA NY area in the printed Bargain News... and website at www.bargainnews.com Yard Tools Section... or Construction/Heavy Equipment section...

Example ads in CT:

KUBOTA COMPACT DIESEL TRACTOR,
22 hp, 4WD, hydrostatic drive, power steering, front loader, rear backhoe, turf tires, 3 pt hitch with york rake, rear/mid PTO, low hours, excellent condition, comes with 16' trailer and 52'' mowing deck, $16,400. (203) 395-0700 (4x) . Huntington

TRACTOR,
1999 John Deere 4300 Diesel Tractor/Backhoe/Loader, 211 hrs, Turf tires, heated enclosed cab, hydraulic snowplow, York rake, back blade, post hole digger, pallet forks, rear mount snow blower, 18' trailer, salt/sander, complete package, fully serviced & maintained, $25,000. (203) 525-0095 (4X) . Oxford

Dave...

BigEddy · Jun 16, 2004

I'm going to wade in here.
1/2 acre to me says one time project list, without an ongoing need for the tractor. Maybe a multi-year project list - sure, but I haven't heard any suggestions of running a business, and the lawn can be mowed by hand. So I have to agree - buy a good used unit, get your jobs done, and sell it. You won't lose. I bought a used Deere 855 with Backhoe, and 8 years later I can sell it for more than I paid for it.

I think I would go the compact route, rather than the subcompact, just for the extended reach and faster cycle times. And the prices seem to be LOWER on a used Compact than sub-compact, probably due to the number available. Nothing you mentioned suggests that you have access concerns where the difference in size would be a problem. (My 855 is only slightly bigger than a BX anyway)

Of the units you mentioned, the only one I have looked at is the BX, and I was very impressed. I've had my 855 for 8 years, and I'm green to the core, but I thought the Hoe on the BX was great. It is beefy, well engineered, and goes on/off extremely slick. And the zerks in the ends of the pins were icing on the cake. It pains me to say it, but the BX hoe is better than my Deere 7 hoe. If you are going the new route, the BX is an excellent machine.

jim_wilson · Jun 16, 2004

I actually have looked at the Terramite - I rented one for a couple of days about 2 years ago and thought it was an ok
piece of machinery. I did have some trouble at the time with controlling the hoe and thought that it was just me but I have seen postings here and there on the web complaining about sloppy control on these so maybe that is just the way they are. To answer your other questions - if it was up to my wife the tractor would probably get sold. If it is left up to me there is a good chance I will keep it on the assumption that there will be further projects down the road. I tend to buy good quality tools and keep them - even if I dont use them every day I always find a use for them over time and I am sure the tractor will be the same way. Unless I buy some serious acreage I don't anticipate using much 3pt implements so maybe the off standard 3pt on the BX23 should not be a big concern. The biggest thing that turns me off on theGC2310 is the hoe bucket - does anybody know if the bucket is maybe interchangeable with heavier duty bucket with replaceable teeth? Thanks also for the buying used suggestions - that is actually one of the first things I thought of but for me there are two problems with that - most of the equipment I found used by looking on Ebay and equipment sites on the web was located significant distance from where I am ( MA ) and would have had to be bought sight unseen and transported to me. Also to get something decent ends up eating up a significant portion of my $$ reserves because you can't get 0% financing on used equipment. With the financing on the new stuff I end up with a montly payment that is not much more than I would spend on rental fees if I rented something once a month.

Keep the info coming though - this has all been very helpful