looking to get a Kubota or JD

rScotty · Apr 7, 2016

daveinnh said:
We have a HST Kubota that's great for loader work (bought used). Problem is that Kubota uses a rocker pedal and my right knee feels the back-and-forth twisting action the next night and day.

A neighbor has a Massey that features separate pedals and it's built a lot heavier and the cab is spacious. ( heavier is better). The Kubota's been reliable and great value , but I'd still shop MF if at all close to your location and if the dealer is deemed reputable.

One final note - ensure that the rear wheels are set far enough out to accommodate chains.

Boy! I sure agree with the advantage of those separate HST pedals. At first my knee felt the results of being twisted over to the side to operate the Kubota HST rocker the next day too. Took a year to get used to, but it did. On the Kubota M59, both side brakes are also on the right side of the steering....putting the rocker even farther to the outside.
I rememvber when trying out other tractors that some had two foot locations for Front and Rear on the Hydrostat and all of them had the controls more inboard than on the Kubota. Much, much nicer.

And I know what you mean about the Massey quality. Everytime I try one out I'm impressed by a whole variety of little things and love that comfortable operator's platform.
rScotty

JWR · Apr 7, 2016

Not sure how this thread (Kubota vs Deere) for that guy in VA looking at 24hp sized machines got diverted into an HST versus std trans debate, but I said before, to each his own. Thes dialogs on TBN can often be educational and interesting, especially revealing people's strong feelings. ... I add to the commentary after several web look-ups that many of the larger tractors (e.g. M5 and M6 Kubota that interest me if I ever replace my MF2660) do not even offer a hydrostatic transmission. The JD 5E and 5M series, JD 4000 series compact utility tractors, none of the MF 4600, 4700 and none of the New Holland T4 series offer HST. I think there is a pattern here -- almost nothing over 50hp offers an HST.

To me there is a definite analogy between automatic transmissions in highway vehicles and HSTs in farm tractors. Many of the same pros and cons apply. The only classes of tractors that do not offer a std transmission are small ones, primarily those used for lawn tractors. The ones that do not offer HST tend to be the larger ones over 50hp. The sizes where both HST and std trans are offered are the ones in roughly the 20 to 50 hp range. And that includes a large number of buyers.

user4211 · Apr 7, 2016

I tried to order an unsynchronized three on the tree. The dealer looked oddly at me. I bought an HST and left.

k0ua · Apr 7, 2016

JWR said:
Not sure how this thread (Kubota vs Deere) for that guy in VA looking at 24hp sized machines got diverted into an HST versus std trans debate, but I said before, to each his own. Thes dialogs on TBN can often be educational and interesting, especially revealing people's strong feelings. ... I add to the commentary after several web look-ups that many of the larger tractors (e.g. M5 and M6 Kubota that interest me if I ever replace my MF2660) do not even offer a hydrostatic transmission. The JD 5E and 5M series, JD 4000 series compact utility tractors, none of the MF 4600, 4700 and none of the New Holland T4 series offer HST. I think there is a pattern here -- almost nothing over 50hp offers an HST.

To me there is a definite analogy between automatic transmissions in highway vehicles and HSTs in farm tractors. Many of the same pros and cons apply. The only classes of tractors that do not offer a std transmission are small ones, primarily those used for lawn tractors. The ones that do not offer HST tend to be the larger ones over 50hp. The sizes where both HST and std trans are offered are the ones in roughly the 20 to 50 hp range. And that includes a large number of buyers.

I hate to come off this way, but I need to point out you are the one that started the HST vs gear debate on this thread. You did that by making some statements that simply are not true. Like the HST is not a good transmission choice in hilly operation. Not only is in not true, nothing could be further from the truth. Also the operation and the fundamentals of an automatic transmission and a HST transmission in a tractor could not be further apart. If you don't believe me, go study how an automatic transmission works and what it is made up of and then study a HST transmission both in form and function. and you will see they do not have much in common. If fact an automatic transmission is a closer cousin to the hydro shuttle gear transmission in both form and function than it is to a HST transmission.

JWR · Apr 7, 2016

user4211 said:
I tried to order an unsynchronized three on the tree. The dealer looked oddly at me. I bought an HST and left.

An "unsynchronized three on the tree" pretty much does not exist any more. All the new std trans (in larger tractors) are synchronized in the basic shifting gears and not synchronized in the "range" selections. In the BX2370 size units (that apparently you got) MF, Deere and Kubota all use HST because that's what people want in that size, mainly for mowing and landscape work.

Grateful11 · Apr 7, 2016

JWR said:
An "unsynchronized three on the tree" pretty much does not exist any more. All the new std trans (in larger tractors) are synchronized in the basic shifting gears and not synchronized in the "range" selections. In the BX2370 size units (that apparently you got) MF, Deere and Kubota all use HST because that's what people want in that size, mainly for mowing and landscape work.

I think that was sarcasm from user4211.

user4211 · Apr 8, 2016

Grateful11 said:
I think that was sarcasm from user4211.

I cannot believe anyone would have taken a three on the tree shifter comment serious.

I like my little HST on my baby BX. Honestly, I'd look at the clutch less shuttle gear drive. That looks good on paper. Maybe it isn't. But it seems the best of both worlds.

JWR · Apr 8, 2016

user4211 said:
I cannot believe anyone would have taken a three on the tree shifter comment serious.

I can't either. It was taken as a cutesy comment. I thought it was funny, not sarcastic. What I said was intended to get back to discussionat hand and mention the fact that unsynchronized standard transmissions are a thing of the past.

KennyG · Apr 8, 2016

JWR said:
Not sure how this thread (Kubota vs Deere) for that guy in VA looking at 24hp sized machines got diverted into an HST versus std trans debate, but I said before, to each his own. ....

To me there is a definite analogy between automatic transmissions in highway vehicles and HSTs in farm tractors. Many of the same pros and cons apply. The only classes of tractors that do not offer a std transmission are small ones, primarily those used for lawn tractors. The ones that do not offer HST tend to be the larger ones over 50hp. The sizes where both HST and std trans are offered are the ones in roughly the 20 to 50 hp range. And that includes a large number of buyers.

I think it's a little more complicated. I'm not an expert but the really big tractors (200 hp) I've seen have unique transmissions (power shift, automatic within ranges, CVTs) that are tending toward automatic operation to optimize gear ratios. There is still some market for the mid range (80+ HP) tractors that are dedicated to row crop use and they tend to be gear units on a cost basis. While there is a clear use for under 50 HP tractors for row crops, most have a primary or secondary use as utility tractors where the HST is a major advantage. Right now there appears to be some cost advantage for gear tractors but I expect that to shrink until the gear tractors go away, the same as manual transmissions have gone away in pickup trucks.

As far as reliability, that train has left the station. Almost every tractor built in the last 75 years has a hydraulic system and is relatively worthless without it. The HST is just a more sophisticated hydraulic system. If the hydraulics fail, you have to fix them whether it's a gear or HST tractor.