lots of erosion! what to do, what to do...

[boggen]

fall 2016, neighbor installed drain tiled in their field, at the end of it all, the snuck across and cut through my fence line, and install drained tile onto my property, and changed the natural point of entry were water would normally enter my property. and had been entering my property.

1. of approx 550 feet of grass waterway, the drain tile by passes 250 of that grass water way. the remaining 300 feet, has been severely eroded away between drain tile and lake. resulting in and fines/silt coming from drain tile to go into lake, but also the soil from (erosion of the waterway) also ends in the lake as well.
2. all the fines / silt / soil just feeding algae and single cell organisms and other aquatic weeds, resulting in 1/2 of lake to be covered in moss and like.
3. for what ever reason, my shore/banks on lake have begun to collaspe as well. been fine for an easy 25 plus years. end result of this sudden erosion is both ends of bridge have collasped into the water. and the dock that hinges on shore bank has become a saftey hazard. along with many trees going around lake are now have there roots showing from the collasped shore/banks of the lake.
4. the overflow on lake the end of the pipe, to creek, has eroded a 3 foot x 3 foot channel. and removing a culvert i had in place. causing me to loose access to front portion of pasture / wooded area.
5. were drain tile comes onto my property, the fence (my half of it), was never repaired were they went through it to install drain tile.
6. the trench goes through driveway, which is only access to lake/cabin/pasture. left it a muddy mess, causing water to stand on the driveway, and ditches to not work, and causing more water to go across the driveway. result normal cars bottom up as they go through the area. also no base rock or like was added to area were trench goes through driveway. the trench itself does not seem like it was very well compacted. as in most likely needing to dig down to drain tile. and then re layer the dirt back in and compacting backup to the surface of the ground. with last few inches with some larger road base rock.
7. they also dug out a tree, and left it between field and grass waterway. so i can no longer mow around the lake. no were to turn around or less into planted crop field, and that is not happening.
8. crop field a portion is left un-usable. due to drain tile runs close to surface of ground.

==========
looking at

1. repairing fence,
2. repairing driveway near fence, along with the ditches, possibly fixing my own drain tile that runs in that area as well.
3. putting in 3 settling ponds (mini ponds) into grass waterway to help slow down the water velocity, to reduce errosion and to act as a filter to let stuff sink down into the mini ponds. were hopefully my TLB with 8 foot of reach or so can clean the mini ponds out.
4. looking to install at least 2 sections of retaining walls. 120' section, and another 40 foot section. were enterece to the lake itself. not sure what the heck i am going to do about the other shore/bank of the lake that are eroding away.
5. dropping some additional posts at each end of bridge, to raise bridge ends up out of the water, and most likely a larger platforms (couple large size steps) to deal with gap between the bridge and hill side that is now there.
6. installing a couple culverts side by side down in pasture. to deal with 3' feet wide, 4" deep water coming from lake overflow pipe, along with a spillway around it.

========
my main issue at this point is how to deal with the lake shore/banks. to keep further erosion from happening. rough estimate 1500 feet of total banks off of google maps. with approx 1 to 2 feet straight vertical mud banks currently. the more they erode away, the more straight vertical wall will happen.

not really looking forward to cutting all the trees down around the pond edge, more so trees that stick out into the water and /or over the water. (good fishing spots)

gabion basket retaining wall = 3'x3' feet wire cage with 3" x 3" square grid size, and filled with recylced concrete. looking at some sort of "fabric" installed on the top of them. and then dirt just pushed right up to the edge. so folks can walk bare foot right up to the lake edge, and/or dogs can walk across it.

other option possibly 6"x6" rough cut timbers for retaining walls. with dead men installed.

one section 120' and another 40' section of retaining wall bare min.

but rest of the lake shore/bank area. i don't know what to do. rip rap rock 4" and larger, or something else....

 

[boggen]

overviews
mine = bottom left
neighbors = top right

starting top right (my property and neighbors and then working down towards lake, then down to pasture)

 

[boggen]

moss covering lake, a lot of it all blew down into bridge and to other side of bridge for these pictures.

bridge ends had 12" to 18" worth of dirt under them before drain tile went in.

dock also had 12" to 18" worth of dirt under it as well. vs lumber falling down into the water.

 

[boggen]

8.5" inside diameter drain tile pipe neighbors installed. rock = approx 12' diameter round end of pipe.

tree dug out and left between filed and grass waterway. no way to really pull it out, or less through the field itself.

fence lined ripped out and never replaced, along with driveway issues and ditch issues

 

[Fiziksgeek]

I don't quite understand your description of the problem. Sounds like the neighbor put in some drain tile that dumps onto your property? I'm not the one to give advice on how to repair the erosion damage, but let me ask this. What are the local laws regarding water run off? Clearly the neighbor shouldn't be able to do anything on your property without your approval, so if the drain tile actually runs onto your property, they are breaking the law. In addition, if they have altered the natural flow of the water, they *may* be liable for damages...or storm run off may be considered a "common enemy"...all depends on your local laws...worth looking into because looks like you have some costs to fit things up.


Edit: I was typing this as you made the additional post with the pictures and marking, I think I understand now. Same questions about local laws still apply though.

 

[Oldoak]

I know what I would do. My #1 priority would be dealing with my neighbor and see what he/she is going to do about the damage and removing the drain tile from my property.

 

[greif]

Call your state don't and a lawyer

 

[boggen]

settling ponds

have yet to actually measure, just guessing at this stage

smallest dam = approx 5 to 8 feet wide, to 3 feet deep, 20 foot pipe going through bottom
middle dam = average between the small/large dam, with 20 foot pipe going through bottom.
largest dam = 50 feet wide maybe a bit wider to 8 to 12 feet deep, 40 footer pipe going through bottom

 

[boggen]

approx 1 to 1.5 feet step from hill to bridge. once bridge ends are re-raised out of water.
showing very ugly drawing of min 4 more posts, and a large step or steps being added.

 

[boggen]

down in the pasture. the culvert. washed out completely. i do not remember what size it was exactly i want to say either 12" or 15" pipe i did have in place.



looking at 2 smaller size culvert pipes. to deal with area. and then needing to pile up dirt/rock over it. in order to obtain enough "depth" of material. so i can drive over it, without crushing the culvert pipes.

have video. best i have for pictures taken for showing depth of water and width of sheet of water flowing through area.

 

[boggen]

have contacted...

• DNR (department of natural resources) = noted they handle water quailty, understaffed, and do not make personal visits, gave location to take water samples of lake water to.
• soil and water (department) guy that handles it has been out planting, and yet to contact me back.
• us army corps of engineers. left message, then they left message, hopefully be able to reach coming week.
• have attempted to contact neighbors/installer. assuming they see my number and ignore.
• have contacted a couple local companies to get bids/quotes. waiting for them to get back in a written bid.

=============
local laws for drainage tile

= neighbor can do what ever they want on there property
= as soon as neighbor changes point of natural run off flow onto my property it requires my permission.
= as soon as neighbor installed drain tile onto my property, it requires permission.

no permission ever given.

trespassing
trespassing + damages = min 250 dollars.
previous neighbor had lots of issues with livestock, result was posted signs of no trespassing around property and fence lines, plus locked gate with no trespassing signs

i need to re-find the laws, neighbor/installer should have submitted a "drain tile" map. to one of the goverment bodies. i saw it in one of the regs/laws but done lost it now.

i need to re-check the 5000sq feet law, i am assuming project of installing drain tile easily surpassed 5000 sq feet amount and needing a permit.

need to dig up document, i have noting. if standing on your property, and looking at neighbors property, middle of fence line and to the right = yours, everything to the left = neighbors. (other issue dealing with previous neighbor and not repairing fence, and letting livestock run all through my property in that constantly getting loose)

have went to court house, and checked deeds and surveys for both properties and did not find any easements, between mine and their property.

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ISSUES i am facing at moment.

one of the bigger issues at moment, is i am not sure what to do about the erosion clear around the entire shores/banks of lake. the area in front of cabin and by bridge need a usable safe retaining wall. human traffic, and dog traffic, inflatable rafts and like, to pulling up small bass boats to paddle boats. but the approx 1400 feet of bank/shore has me baffled at moment.

the other issue is down in pasture. there is no way for me to accurately judge how much damage has happened between overflow pipe (end of it) to creek. i can judge were culvert pipes go. but the rest of the area is to steep and covered with to many trees and brush/bushes. and will need to wait till late fall/early winter when vegetation to die back. so i can get in there and see what is going on. along with the marsh area is overgrown. no way to mow it without getting stuck. so it also needs to wait till late fall/early winter.

and speaking with a lawyer. = not sure who to contact and/or type of lawyer to contact. they all have their fields of specialization / cases they take.

 

[MossRoad]

Hate to say it, but its lawsuit time... get in early and before they do. It's the American way.

 

[Oldoak]

Hate to say it, but its lawsuit time...

I agree. It appears this is bigger than you will be able handle by yourself. As much as I don't like lawyers, never hired a single lawyer in my lifetime yet, I believe it is time for you to consult with one. The sooner the better.

 

[hddnis]

Something you might look up, since it is a factor, is any changes in annual precipitation. I mention it because in my area we are dealing with three times the average annual rainfall in less than six months, it has caused a lot of issues with smaller ponds, county ditches, some slides, etc.

If that has happened in your area it might be the cause of the issues with the lake, hence not directly related to the pipe the neighbor put in.

 

[crackerjack222]

Random observations:

Time to send a demand letter (certified mail, RRR) to your neighbor demanding they correct the problems caused by their drain tile. Do this with or without a lawyer involved, better if done by a lawyer. The letter should stick to facts not emotions and have a deadline for response and corrective action.

Would it be possible to run a pipe down the property line so that their drain water bypasses your property?

The moss/vegetation problem may be because of fertilizer runoff from their property or yours.

 

[Birdhunter1]

For starters I know most of IL has had record rainstorm/flash floods in the last two years and if your area received those big storms like we did down in the south part of the state I would say that is alot of your problem. However in that statement I am not saying your neighbor did not do things on your property OR his that are causing your problems also.
I would contact the soil conservation office for your county, Likely the alphabet soup name for them would be ASCS (American Soil Conservation Service), USDA (U.S. Dept of Ag) or the NRCS (Natural Resources Conservation Service). The other part of this is the work was very likely hired out to a contractor and it was the contractor that did the damage not your neighbor himself/herself. Likely the neighbor or contractor had to have talked to one of those agencies prior to doing the drainage work.

I would start with one of the agencies mentioned above. I like the Department of Natural Resources in our state but lets face it, they are very short staffed and stretched thin. If you get to an obstacle in the road with contacting anyone or getting someone to pay attention to you I would call and schedule a time for a DNR Conservation Police Officer to meet with you. That officer probably can't resolve your issue as it isn't there full field of expertise but the officers have an above average general knowledge AND they know alot of the local ASCS, USDA, NRCS staff or other appropriate state agency to help you.

NRCS: Illinois Field Office Directory Map | NRCS Illinois
USDA: USDA Service Center Locator
ASCS is apparently an office in the USDA office.

DNR Officer: Click on the "contact a local CPO icon' Law Enforcement

Good luck. I would follow this story in case I ever have the same problem but I'm on the high ground around e and everything drains away from me aside from a few acres that drain to me in one spot from my uncles property.

On edit... contacting a CPO wouldn't be a bad thing anyway, like I said they are in the know with the people of the above mentioned agencies and they may be able to provide input to them before the agency can contact you. I've not found that it is a bad thing to have a CPO on your side in an issue, then again as short staffed as they are I have noticed they don't respond to some of the more minor things like they used to.
It wouldn't hurt if you do talk to a CPO to start out by saying 'I don't think this is your ballgame but you may be able to direct me to the appropriate place.' That line has served me well amongst IL CPO's.

 

[LD1]

I just don't see the tile being the cause of the erosion and bridge issues. Algae....maybe because of fertility and surface vegetation runoff. But tough to prove.

But doing the work without your permission, ripping out a tree, making your drive impassable, etc etc.....that's all not okay.

Agree it's lawyer and expert time. Maybe there is some way or something we aren't seeing that will prove the erosion and bridge issues are a direct result of the tile.

In the mean time, if they (neighbor) still refuses to take your calls....you mentioned you have a backhoe. Remove all the tile they put on your property. And cap it off at the property like. Then watch his field suffer the consequences.

 

[PILOON]

It will take some time but once made aware the authorities, Environment, Natural Resources etc will get into the act and that will cost him big time.
Unfortunately you might have to be able to defend your position as his defense will probably attempt to prove that all that mess existed prior too his diversion or by yourself.

Very similar situation happened to a friend but he lucked out in that he discovered aerial photos (on a gov't site) that showed terrain before he acquired it and therefore had an excellent defense. Problem was that courts and lawyers cost him a bundle but he won.
B4 winning (actually they dropped the case) they had recommended an $80,000. fine.

Good luck!

 

[Oldoak]

In the mean time, if they (neighbor) still refuses to take your calls....you mentioned you have a backhoe. Remove all the tile they put on your property. And cap it off at the property like. Then watch his field suffer the consequences.

That was my first thoughts.

But no, I would not change a thing as long as the various agencies and possibly a lawyer may get
involved.

It still baffles me how your neighbor thought it was ok for him to do something like that without permission!

 

[Streetcar]

Get your overflow fixed as soon as possible
Although smaller pipes may have the same volume as larger pipe they will clog easier
Keep track of cost of repairs to bring up to neighbor