lots of erosion! what to do, what to do...

[Tractor Seabee]

No matter what; you will need back up data provided by a Civil/Geo-Tech Engineer. Lawyers are not engineers. As this may be someone elses liability; best to get an engineer experienced in forensic engineering as they are considered expert witnesses in court. With that in hand going to court (the most expensive lawyer action) may get your neighbor to settle out of court if he is actually proven liability. At minimum you need to prove the problem was not created by natural causes.

Ron

 

[rd_macgregor]

Is the neighbor farming the land on your side? If so, they may have (incorrectly) assumed the right to install the drain tile all the way onto your property.
Has the neighbor also changed crops or other farming practices on the land upstream? Timing of this spring's heavy rains may be the major cause of your problems, though the drain tile will inevitably direct an increased nutrient load to your pond and promote algae and other acquatic vegetation growth.

If you can't see a willingness and positive movement by the neighbor to solve the problems, I'd be tempted to cap off the tile at the property line, as suggested by another poster...though this kind of escalation might be counter-productive in the end, it would sure be satisfying in the short term! I'd suggest asking your lawyer about the legality/advisability of this kind of preemptive action, though.

 

[Oldoak]

A lot of armchair analysts here, myself included.

Please keep us all posted as to your course of action and the final outcome, which could take quite some time, particularly since your trespassing neighbor has shown no signs to even communicate with you.

Like I stated before, I would not touch a thing until this problem is settled. Once you start digging on your own, it could become a blame game as to who or what caused the flooding, erosion, sediment build up, etc.

 

[crazyal]

If it was me and the neighbor wasn't returning phone calls i would find a lawyer that deals with situations like this. A good lawyer will know what to do, which people to hire, and when. All that may be needed is some photos of the damage and a certified letter from a lawyer stating the damage done by the neighbor. The lawyer will know if it's best to include what options are available to you if your neighbor chooses to ignore the letter. As for doing the work yourself, I wouldn't, at least not without talking to someone. When it comes to ponds you are getting into federal territory. Do the wrong thing (even if it's the right thing) and you could be facing fines, not your neighbor.

 

[PILOON]

Yes, lawyer up but not just any lawyer.
You have to locate one that knows environmental issues.

I have experienced and seen just too many cases lost as well as won simply based on specialty or lack there of.

 

[Streetcar]

Get engineer or hydrologist to verify neighbor caused problem. They should know good lawyer if you need one

 

[FarmWrench]

In general tile greatly reduces erosion, and nutrient runoff. Our area has had 125year record breaking rainfall. Think of all the surface material that would have otherwise washed if the ground hadn't had tile to reduce saturation. (A myth is that tile removes all water. It only will flow once the soil is saturated at the level of the tile.)

As far as the trespassing. Do you have a good survey? Did you sign a lease or rental agreement for the farmer to use your land? Did he simply repair an old tile? We have tile that dates to the 1840's and easements are recoded on some. Yes the tree is gone but roots clogging up a tile is a common way old tile is found.

Tile is worth $1000+ per acre.

There is more to this story.

 

[boggen]

got a couple bids in. a couple of them too small of machinery i do believe, more "city folks" is there bread and butter type of thing. this last company seemed a lot better equipment wise, larger excavator and dozer and overall additional equipment to handle bigger projects on this scale. and seemed to have better grasp of what needed to be done, and telling me what they would do, without me saying anything to them. this last company needs to get back home and figure actual bid out. but overall much happier with their comprehension and what needed to be done.

 

[boggen]

In general tile greatly reduces erosion, and nutrient runoff. Our area has had 125year record breaking rainfall. Think of all the surface material that would have otherwise washed if the ground hadn't had tile to reduce saturation. (A myth is that tile removes all water. It only will flow once the soil is saturated at the level of the tile.)

As far as the trespassing. Do you have a good survey? Did you sign a lease or rental agreement for the farmer to use your land? Did he simply repair an old tile? We have tile that dates to the 1840's and easements are recoded on some. Yes the tree is gone but roots clogging up a tile is a common way old tile is found.

Tile is worth $1000+ per acre.

There is more to this story.

2 drain tiles, that are mine that come in at a sharp corner. the water turns milky color more of a "white,gray,tan, even blackish" colored. this new drain tile installed by neighbor, being newly installed has had some water color changes to it. and not just clear see through water coming out of it.

deeds and surveys, at courthouse, i want to say back to 1940's maybe 1920's (do not have papers in front of me) only easement that ever showed up was for primary road out in front of house, and nothing else.

 

[boggen]

Get engineer or hydrologist to verify neighbor caused problem. They should know good lawyer if you need one

US army corps, and soil and water conservation department did get back to me. but been busy. and have not had chance to contact back that and it rained nearly every day this week here. will get in touch with them this coming week if not tomorrow.

 

[boggen]

lawyers

have yet to start to find a lawyer. not one of things i want to do list, but needs to be done list.
not sure were to even start and will most likely take a good amount of phone calls to narrow it down to find a lawyer. new adventure it would seem to begin.

 

[newbury]

<snip>
In the mean time, if they (neighbor) still refuses to take your calls....you mentioned you have a backhoe. Remove all the tile they put on your property. And cap it off at the property like. Then watch his field suffer the consequences.

One of my neighbors laid pipe in a part of one of my yards (without asking) to "speed" their lawn draining. Unfortunately my lawn mower busted it. Doesn't drain well now.

On another property the neighbor did an addition and piled all the dirt such that what had been lawn on my property became swamp, until I ditched my property and now he has a stream.

US army corps, and soil and water conservation department did get back to me. but been busy. and have not had chance to contact back that and it rained nearly every day this week here. will get in touch with them this coming week if not tomorrow.

The Corps (which I'm retired from) is hurting, they may not get back to you.

Trump also is proposing to cut the Army Corps of Engineers' civil-works budget by $1 billion, or 16%.

from Trump Budget Cuts Construction Accounts, Spares Others | 217-3-16 | ENR

The problem with rerouting water flow was traditionally an EPA/Corps domain, but with the EPA on the way out there may not be much help there.

It reads like you need to build a dam just inside your property line.

You should be able to find hard copy aerial imagery from the '40s.

My former job involved historical aerial imagery and we usually could find image flown by SCS or Ag that dated to the 1930's.

 

[hawkeye08]

I do not like it when neighbors do things on my property without my permission. We had a neighbor drill a water well on our property while we were on vacation.. then they worked with county to put a large cul de sac on our property so they could subdivide their property (lied to county and said we agreed to it). We filed a trespass lawsuit against the enighbor and made the county undo the stuff done on our property records. We eventually settled before it went to court, but it cost us a bunch in lawyer fees that were never recovered. They just dragged their feet and cost us money.

Try to do as much as you can without a lawyer, but don't hesitate if one is needed. There may be Google maps that show it before the changes. The local permitting office may have some information on what was recorded (if a permit was obtained). When I first saw the picture of the discharge pipe, I thought to myself, if that was put on my property without my permission, I would bury it in concrete, never to be seen again. I might even put up a 4' berm along my property... too bad it is not a 100 years ago, we could get a good old fashioned feud going.

 

[Streetcar]

got a couple bids in. a couple of them too small of machinery i do believe, more "city folks" is there bread and butter type of thing. this last company seemed a lot better equipment wise, larger excavator and dozer and overall additional equipment to handle bigger projects on this scale. and seemed to have better grasp of what needed to be done, and telling me what they would do, without me saying anything to them. this last company needs to get back home and figure actual bid out. but overall much happier with their comprehension and what needed to be done.

What are they recommending?
Have you ask them for lawyer referral?

 

[boggen]

What are they recommending?
Have you ask them for lawyer referral?

fixing area were the sharp turn is. were drain tile goes through driveway area.

putting in min a settling pond. (larger main dam) nearest to the lake. will hold the most water. basically an overflow pipe on settling pond/s so water comes in and slows down and stuff sinks out to the bottom. tossing rock across the top of dams so if pipes plug, water goes over the top of them / spillway around the dams for settling ponds.

little iffy on the 2 smaller settling pond dams. perhaps rip rap between drain tile and were water level for settling pond would be. it is one of those things were until things start getting built, and everything gets stripped down, and see what the soil is like thing. and how much more erosion happens between now and then.

the opposite side of lake that the cabin is on. excavator work to strip out most of the trees to gain access to bank. to drop in rip rap. i am going to assume some dozer work to smooth it all out afterwards and then grass seed it and straw it all. to deal with erosion till grass grows in.

side of lake that the cabin is on. clear the brush leaving the trees if possible. and tossing in rip rap along the bank edge.

the issue with the rip rap rock, with all bids, is all companies want to clear it up first, and then only after clearing, give bid for rip rap rock itself. after all the clearing.

the area down below the dam, most likely running a drain tile from overflow pipe to marsh area, and ending the drain tile just past culvert. and toss a bunch of rock out at end of drain tile to reduce velocity of water and spread the water out. the marshy area is well a marsh and you will sink.

they are wanting to for most part doze the trees into piles and make mini piles and just set all the piles on fire as they doze stuff out.

the last company wants more in mid summer (dry months) for the work. to help deal with well mud and rain and just general overall weather. and rough estimate about 2 weeks worth of work. and did not want to deal with it at all during spring/fall at all. to much flowing water is my guess. and not wanting to jack around with a larger water trash pump if possible. so work can can happen more smoothly. also the hill sides are steep enough, that they are not wanting to slip and slide and fight any muddy wet hill sides.

of course portion of field "beans or corn" would be taken out so company has room to actually work and get things done correctly.

===========
other words to above, instead of an engineer specifically stating this and that down to the final inch and grade. just getting in there and getting it done, and working through issues as they show up.

===========
no lawyer referal

 

[Rustyiron]

fall 2016, neighbor installed drain tiled in their field, at the end of it all, the snuck across and cut through my fence line, and install drained tile onto my property, and changed the natural point of entry were water would normally enter my property. and had been entering my property.

That's all the reason I'd need to dig down to HIS pipe on YOUR property and cap it right off and backfill around it with a few yards of concrete, then call a lawyer. You seem unusually eager to spend your money making repairs rather than (1) stopping the problem (his added water flow) and (2) getting some legal help what seem's to be a straight forward legal issue. At this point it seem's like a simple trespass, damage & property rights issue that would seem to be 1st year law stuff. It may elevate to specialty lawyers, but right now I'd hire any lawyer and get him started on this nightmare.

 

[airbiscuit]

A couple of posters have recommended that you cap the discharge pipe that is on your property.
You haven't responded to that.
My question is, why isn't that the first thing you do?

It will either solve the problem
or
motivate the other landowner to finally talk to you.

Am I missing something here>

 

[Oldoak]

Am I missing something here>

I think there is something we are all missing here. Perhaps more than we have been told? :confused3:

 

[hddnis]

I think there is something we are all missing here. Perhaps more than we have been told? :confused3:

For sure.

Not saying it is deliberate on the part of the OP, he has been very upfront about how he is still gathering information.

People who think you can just dig down and cap the pipe don't have a clue. They are the people that usually go through life learning lessons the hard way and paying more for things than they need to. Impulse action based on emotion is a poor way to live.

 

[boggen]

curving thread as OP (original poster)
i will not mess with the drain tile (end of story), i am darn if i do, and darn if i do not.

instead of telling me to plug it. what would happen if i do not plug it? what additional damage would occur.

if i did plug it up and knowing my luck "murphy law" seems follow me everywhere. more damage more likely occur and take out my driveway completely.

trying to plug up (err my notes are in truck), 8.5 inch or 10.5 inside diameter pipe. and i want to say 3000 to 4000 GPH flowing out of it (do not quote me on numbers going by memory). would not be an easy task at all. an inner tube might work (acting like an inflatable test plug). but even then. it more likely blow out.

they did there deeds. let them pay for all the damages. including on going erosion damage till issues get resolved. they should have obtained permission first and talked to me first, i have other stuff that needs to be dealt with that requires my own time and machines and equipment to get stuff done. i am not going to bend over backwards for there crud.