Low Hour Use Oil Change Frequency

[JeffandTamara]

I know this question has had to been answered numerous times on this forum, but, I have done several searches and not been able to find a direct answer ... So here goes...
I have inherieted the maintenace for 2 tractors, both are very low hours per year. one has gotten about 20 hrs this year (460 total) and the other about 10hrs this year with about 1500 total.
Oil was changed last fall on both. Fuel filters were changed in the spring of 2006. As far as I know the Transmission fluid has not been changed in either since new. (Manual calls for changes at 400 hrs I think). Looking at the dipstick, the oil looks very clean and is full on both. My gut is I should bite the bullet and change engine Oil and filters, and fuel filters. My logic is the winter Temperature changes would cause some condensation and generate some water in the systems. The transmission/hydraulic oil is the more expesive and time consuming question.

Just thought I would get some other opinions about oil changing strategy for low hours machines...
Thanks in advance.

 

[patrick_g]

Jeff, I'd change the engine oil at least once a year if the tractor is used no matter how little. If there is a particular part of the year when it is used the least for the longest (say one of them isn't run in the winter) I'd change the oil before the big hiatus.

Changing oil or any lubricant never hurts anything. Not changing it can. The hard part is making a wise management decision of how often to change given your use and operating conditions so that you optimize function at minimum cost. My personal take is that hydraulic fluid is the least needy of changing. If it is a hydrostat there are more sources of contamination and less tolerance of it but I'd lean toward the MFG recommendations or a bit less if ENOUGH time passes.

It will be interesting to see how yet another skirmish in the lubricant wars plays out.

Pat

 

[Z-Michigan]

I agree with Pat, and my JD owner's manual says to change oil a minimum of every 12 months. If they are really low hours I would look for the cheapest oil that meets the necessary ratings. The only area where I differ is that I would change after the off-season so you have fresh oil immediately when you are using the tractors.

 

[Egon]

When you do use the tractors do run them at operating temperature for sufficient time to get rid of any condensed water.

And I really think a mystery oil would be the best to use!

 

[patrick_g]

I agree with Pat, and my JD owner's manual says to change oil a minimum of every 12 months. If they are really low hours I would look for the cheapest oil that meets the necessary ratings. The only area where I differ is that I would change after the off-season so you have fresh oil immediately when you are using the tractors.

Something to consider... Whatever "undesirable stuff" like acids and such from the engine running that is in the crankcase would be stored there to eat on things all during the storage. Putting a machine away for an extended time with clean oil prevents most of that. Clean oil doesn't accumulate much contamination just sitting there in an inoperative engine. Worst case with diurnal heating and cooling cyle some moist air might have caused minor condensation in the crankcase.

Then when the unit is started up and put back into service the condensation (distilled water actually) will be driven off by the heat and you are good to go.

On the other hand, storing a unit with dirty oil and adding condensation, the condensation doesn't stay clean but is just part of the acid bath action.

Egon's comment is right on. You do want to run the tractor long enough to get up to operating temp and stay there long enough to evaporate away all the water produced shortly after starting. A bad idea it to change oil in prep for storage and then run the tractor for just a minute or two to park it for storage. It is far better to park it whre it will stay and change oil there.

If the tractor will go unused for long enough it is better to drain the fluids in some instances but if they are used a few times every year that is not the case.

I think the worst thing is to let old contaminated oil stay in a tractor that is not being used very often as the condensation that it accumulates from the breathing in and out with daily temp changes ads water to the contaminates which makes for a good acid bath.

I guess maybe we might just have to agree to disagree.

Pat

 

[kenmac]

I like to bring the engine up to temp just b 4 changing oil. Any particles that are in the engine will now be suspended in the hot oil .Then ,pull the plug ( don't burn yourself with the hot oil)

 

[patrick_g]

I like to bring the engine up to temp just b 4 changing oil. Any particles that are in the engine will now be suspended in the hot oil .Then ,pull the plug ( don't burn yourself with the hot oil)

Ken, You are definitely right, it is a really good practice to have the oil up to operating temperature by running the engine before you change it. It helps ensure that the maximum amount of "BAD STUFF" Will be drained.

Note however, we are talking about different things. The difference I was trying to point out was between: 1. changing after use but prior to storage versus 2. changing after storage and prior to use.

Pat

 

[JeffandTamara]

I appreciate the responses. What has been said makes a lot of sense and fits pretty well with what I was thinking. The older tractor (Case 1190), that has 1500 hrs is used to haul in some round bale hay and do a little bush hogging. I think it will be done for the year by mid October. The Kioti is used for odds and ends and is likely to be used more during the winter months w/4WD. For the reasons stated, I will change the engine oil in both in October when I get done with the final bush hogging.

What do you think about the fuel filters? I know the fuel filter on the Case was changed in the Spring of 2006. So very little fuel put through the filter set. We always fill the fuel tank and add diesel fuel treatment before winter storage. It seems like a waste to change the filters so quickly, but maybe an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure... The Kioti fuel filter is easy to change, fairly inexpesive and since that is my cold weather Tractor, makes sense to keep that filter as new as possible.

This leaves me with the Transmission/hydraulic fluid. I think the prudent thing to do is to change the fluid and filter on the Case.

Again thanks to everyone for the insight and advice...

 

[patrick_g]

Jeff, I prefer to change a filter based on its performance not age. But that requires a filter minder, a low pressure gage installed across the input and out put of the filter assembly. A filter needs to be changed when it restricts flow too much not because it had a birthday.

As far as the filters when storing a tractor for several months. First you need a biocide in the fuel like Biobor or equivalent as well as Stabil or equivalent. Diesel does age! Just slower than gasoline. If you have a convenient way to shut off the fuel to the filter I would be sure the tank was totally full to the brim to stop condensation (if it doesn't breath in and out with temp changes it doesn't make condensation. Then I'd shut off the fuel to the filter and remove the filter. Drain it and wrap it in a clean cloth. It will drain and dry and not grow anything even if you don't use a biocide like you should.

Pat

 

[kenmac]

Patrick, I understand, I was just giving the poster this info. if he didn't already know to change oil in this manner. I talk to folkes all the time that change their oil cold cause they don't want to get burned by hot oil. I change my filter & oil prior to winter storage

 

[DieselPower]

Jeff, I prefer to change a filter based on its performance not age. But that requires a filter minder, a low pressure gage installed across the input and out put of the filter assembly. A filter needs to be changed when it restricts flow too much not because it had a birthday.

As far as the filters when storing a tractor for several months. First you need a biocide in the fuel like Biobor or equivalent as well as Stabil or equivalent. Diesel does age! Just slower than gasoline. If you have a convenient way to shut off the fuel to the filter I would be sure the tank was totally full to the brim to stop condensation (if it doesn't breath in and out with temp changes it doesn't make condensation. Then I'd shut off the fuel to the filter and remove the filter. Drain it and wrap it in a clean cloth. It will drain and dry and not grow anything even if you don't use a biocide like you should.

Pat

Actually today's diesel "ages" faster than gasoline. ULSD has a much lower shelf life then the diesel of day's gone by. Biodiesel is even worse. Biodiesel can go bad in as little as 6 months.

 

[patrick_g]

GOT IT, KEN. We are singing the same song.

Clearly you don't have a hot oil phobia but some do. If I were THAT concerned with the hot oil, I'd get a second drain plug, drill a hole through it, install a petcock and then use it in the following way:

Pull the drain plug while engine is cold and quickly replace it with the one with the petcock. Use the vehicle till it is up to normal temp and then shut it down and open the petcock. After all the oil drained then swap back to the normal drain plug and refill the crankcase.

Why not leave the drain with petcock in place for normal ops? Because I go off road and through brush and such with trucks and tractor and "STUFF" would probably hit the petcock and either break it or turn it on a bit and I'd drain oil out at a time it wasn't desired.

So far I haven't got blistered by hot oil but I have had it run all the way to my armpit which is kinda yucky. The filter in my old beater ('89 4x4 Dakota) is VERY inconvenient to R&R. IT is one of the poke a hole in it and drain the filter types.

Pat

Pat

 

[Egon]

There may be an aftermarket drain plug that let's you avoid the hot oil running down your arm.

Cumin's had one but my truck does not have it.

 

[patrick_g]

There may be an aftermarket drain plug that let's you avoid the hot oil running down your arm.

Cumin's had one but my truck does not have it.

O have yet to see any of the "easy drain" plugs that I woiuld trust to not get hurt by a rock or heavy brush or...

Great for ON-HIGHWAY vehicles.

Pat

 

[DieselPower]

O have yet to see any of the "easy drain" plugs that I woiuld trust to not get hurt by a rock or heavy brush or...

Great for ON-HIGHWAY vehicles.

Pat

I have been using FUMOTO (sp?) drain valves for years and have never had a problem. Hit one with a rock on my JD one day and it lived, the pan didn't. You can get them for everything from cars and trucks, OTR truck/tractors and ag tractors and equipment. A good company that makes a good product.

 

[patrick_g]

I have been using FUMOTO (sp?) drain valves for years and have never had a problem. Hit one with a rock on my JD one day and it lived, the pan didn't. You can get them for everything from cars and trucks, OTR truck/tractors and ag tractors and equipment. A good company that makes a good product.

You got the spelling dead on. I checked their site and found this comment:

Warning:
For users under extreme conditions:
If you are using the Engine Oil Drain Valve on off-road vehicles such as farm tractors and logging equipment under extreme environment (i.e. corn fields, brush areas), it is recommended that a hose clip as shown below be used for extra safety and security. The hose clip, which can be purchased at any hardware stores, will firmly keep the lever in the locked position at all times.

I'm glad you didn't ruin your valve on the rock but that was probably just luck of the draw not a real useful test of the off-road survivability of the product. A single sample is not a good predictor. I'm sure it is a quality product and from their description a good design very unlikely to ever cause a problem but anything that sticks down below the rest of the "stuff" is just asking to take a hit off-road.

I like like the easy use aspect but am a bit circumspect about anything that sticks down below where the OEM plug does (given my propensity for driving where maybe I shouldn't.

Maybe I go places that most sane folks don't but I have had several incidents of brush damage to the bottom of my tractor. Slicked the cruise control twice, got an oil line, ran sticks through the starter motor, fuel filter, and radiator in separate incidents.

If I were operating more "normally" you can bet your boots I'd want valves like that as they would be oh so convenient!

Thanks for posting the name.

Here is the site: FUMOTO ENGINEERING

Pat

 

[DieselPower]

I'm glad you didn't ruin your valve on the rock but that was probably just luck of the draw not a real useful test of the off-road survivability of the product. A single sample is not a good predictor. I'm sure it is a quality product and from their description a good design very unlikely to ever cause a problem but anything that sticks down below the rest of the "stuff" is just asking to take a hit off-road.


Pat

I don't just have one. I have 3 JD's with them, 1 Massy combine, 2 old IH's, 1 IH road tractor, 3 cars, 2 P/U's and a lawn mower with them. I have also installed probably close to 100 of them on road tractors over the years. Never once have I seen one fail. They are built like a rock, simple and straight forward design.

I agree that they do stick out, it's the nature of the beast. As long as that's not a problem they are great.

 

[patrick_g]

DieselPower, Don't misunderstand me. My sample of one comment was regarding your crashing your pan and not breaking the drain plug. I assume you haven't crashed all the machines you list! Probably all the ones you installed haven't crashed.

As far as the plug itself is concerned, I think it is a very sound design (ball valve with lock and provision for more locking as recommended by maker for off road), good material choice(brass) and would be a very sweet thing for situations not risking hitting things with it. Therein is my personal concern.

I hit things with the stuff on the bottom side of my vehicles. A few months back I knocked the drain plug off the radiator of my Dakota and it is in a more protected location than the oil drain. If I were not getting into "rough stuff" I'd have those things on my vehicles for sure. The convenience would far outweigh the cost and installation is free (just put it in instead of the regular plug when you change oil. I'm all for convenience in maint. I installed a spin on adapter to replace the canister in my '97 Dodge Cumins. That remoted the filter up in plain sight under the hood and has a filter minder pressure gauge.

Pat

 

[KICK]

I'm amazed at the contortions some people go thru to perform a task which is the mechanical equivalent of a bowel movement.

 

[Soundguy]

My opinion is to change the oil per hour recomendations OR at least 1 per year, whatever comes first.. except that tranny oil ( usually 300 or 600 hrs ) can go 2ys.. etc as long as it is not getting wet.. ( check at drain plug after 1yr.. etc.. )

Soundguy