low volume, no-spill fueling method

[jyoutz]

I thought that I would post this because, I'm sure that lots of people would like to figure out a better way to fuel their compact. My 4100 doesn't use much fuel, only has a 6 gal. tank. I usually only go through about 5 gals. a month unless I have a special project. I haven't wanted to buy in large barrel quantities, due to the problems associated with aged fuel, So I have been filling my 5 gallon can. Of course, the fuel always leaks out of the pour spouts and dribbles down the can, your hood, and down your pants leg, when fueling directly from a can. Last week after ruining a pair of shoes, I decided there must be a better way. I haven't been too impressed with the cheapy looking plastic pumps you see around. I bought a regular steel, pump-handle barrel pump for 55 gallon drums. Then I bought a steel 5 gallon military-style jeep fuel can. The barrel pump threads are exactly the same as the gas can. So I cut off the intake tube to fit the can length, screwed the barrel pump into the can, and attached a 4' section of rubber garden hose to the pump. Now, I can leave the fuel can on the ground or floorboard and pump the fuel into the tank with no spillage or mess at all. I hope that this helps out others who are having the same problems I was having. I plan to get a second can for gas and just use the same pump for each can (of course I should probably paint the letters gas and diesel on each can to avoid disasters).

 

[Harv]

Jim -

I'm making a note about this approach. Sounds like you're onto something. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

I probably use less fuel even than you, and so far I've been getting by okay with the method I posted back in this thread. Sadly, the pictures that went along with it seem to have disappeared. /w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif

I'll have to ask Muhammad about that.

 

[RobS]

Sounds like a neat trick jyoutz and I may have to "borrow" your idea as I have the same problem filling my 790. A couple of watch-out-fors: 1) Diesel doesn't like galvanized steel so make sure your metal fuel cans aren't galvanized. 2) "Garden variety" garden hose may not be compatible with fuel. For just a couple of feet it may be worth going to a the farm store and getting actual fuel hose. It's bound to be a lot cheaper than chasing contamination through your entire fuel system.

Thanks again for the idea /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[GlueGuy]

Jim,

That's a great solution! I too have that problem, and have been just "dealing" with it. Last time I added fuel, I used a big funnel, because the fuel starts pouring out of the portable conatiner before you can "aim" properly /w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif.

Where are good sources for these pumps?

The GlueGuy

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Why does diesel fuel not like galvanized steel??

 

[Bird]

Rob, just what is the difference in the hoses? I've wondered about it, but my pump nozzle is threaded for a garden hose, so an old short piece of garden hose is what I've been using for the last couple of years.

Bird

 

[DFB]

This warning is included in my John Deere operator's manual, under the section on fuel storage.

<font color=blue>IMPORTANT: DO NOT USE GALVANZED STEEL CONTAINERS - diesel fuel stored in galvanized containers reacts with the zinc coatings in the container to form zinc flakes. If the fuel also contains water, a zinc gel will also form. The gel and flakes will quickly plug fuel filters and damage fuel injectors and fuel pumps.</font color=blue>

DFB

 

[GlueGuy]

Answering my own question, I went to Northern Tool, and poked around until I found hand pumps. Here's a whole bunch of them ranging from el-cheapo, to deluxe: Northern Hand Pumps

Thanks again for the tip Jim. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

The GlueGuy

 

[RobS]

Now I remember where I saw this, it was MY owners manual. I don't know the specifics (I'm not a chemist), but we have a lot of trouble with zinc based coatings at work. If I dig waaaaay back into the chemistry classes, zinc is a fairly noble metal which is why it is used in corrosion protection. It sacrifices itself in a reaction with the oxidizers to protect the base metal. Trouble is, the corrosion by-products tend to slough off in great volumes and clog everything they run into. Not a problem on the exterior sheet metal of your truck, it just falls off. In your fuel or brake system it can spell plugged filters and failed seals. Some fluids are worse than others for the corrosion reaction. SAE is relaxing the zinc corrosion protection standard for brake fluid as it affects the high temperature properties and by now no one uses zinc coatings in brake systems.

As for the hoses, again I'm not a chemist. I only know that certain rubber and synthetic rubber compounds are inert to fluids such as diesel fuel and others tend to break down in the presence. As an example, EPDM rubber is excellent in brake fluid but swells and softens considerably in hydro-carbon fuels. Opposite is true for nitrile rubber. Considering the relatively low cost of using hose spec'd for diesel, I'd opt for that instead of risking potential damage to my fuel system.

BTW, if you ever need a cheap paint stripper use brake fluid... wicked stuff /w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif

Hope this helps /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[TWINKLE_TOES]

GlueGuy,

Thanks for that link, if you can't find one there you like probably can't find one.

DFB,

Thanks for posting "galvanized not for diesel." In ignorance I darn near used a galvanized tank, went with polyproplene because it was bigger. Dodged a bullet/w3tcompact/icons/mad.gif

Al

 

[Anonymous Poster]

I have seen zinc colored gel in my sediment bowl when I flushed the fuel tank after I knew water entered after pressure washing. Can I assume the water attracted all zinc particles to form the gel. I will check the fuel filter before next use - and I did quit using the galvanized can last summer.

Once again, very useful info provided by this board - Thank you

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Great post!

I haven't got over how easy it is to fill my Kubota, I can stand on that nice almost flat floor with a 2.5 gal can and a big mouth funnel and not spill a drop. My Ford was a reach-over-the-loader-arms affair that is a nightmare. Of course that 27 hp 1710 sure was a lot more miserly with diesel then the 35 hp Kubota. And the BX? I can't remember when I put fuel in it last! Most of my engine oil, hydraulic fluid, diesel etc, jobs eventually get figured out so I know which funnel and procedure works best, I printed it up for my shop wall as I'd forget by the time the fluid needed changing. There's all kinds of weird angled funnels available. I also made a list of all the tools needed to drain everything so I wouldn't have to go look, guess, take 3 wrenchs (non of which would be right).

I have 4 tractors, trucks, cars etc. I can remember my childhood street addresses, but not the good stuff /w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif

del

 

[TWINKLE_TOES]

Rob,

<font color=blue>zinc is a fairly noble metal </font color=blue>

I think I spotted a "typo". Please don't return the favor./w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Zinc is one of the least noble metals. The noble metals are Graphite, Platinum, Hastelloy, Titanium, stainless. Nickel.....

The least noble metals are Magnesium, Zinc, Galvanized steel, Aluminum Alloys, Cadmium....

 

[jyoutz]

Glueguy, the one I'm using is a lever-style hand pump just like Item# 109936 which is shown on your Northern link. I bought it at a Carquest Automotive store for $30. Napa has them too.

 

[jyoutz]

What I'm using is just plain black rubber hose which I bought at Ace Hardware. Its black rubber with internal cloth threads. The cross section looks like a radiator hose. Should I be looking for something else?

 

[jyoutz]

Rob, I'm using one of those red painted military-style Jeep cans. I just bought a new one and I'll check, but I don't think those are galvanized. Thanks for the info.

 

[RobS]

<font color=blue>I think I spotted a "typo". Please don't return the favor</font color=blue>

Like I said, I'm hardly a chemist /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif I'm sitting here typing and staring at my CRC Handbook of Chemistry and Physics wondering if I should take the time to educate myself... nah, I'll go shopping for a landscape rake instead /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

Thanks for the correction TwinkleToes /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[RobS]

jyoutz, it would be pretty tough to determine what kind of rubber your hose is without a lab analysis. We've got a guy at work who could tell by the smell, but he's been around rubber for a long time /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

If you are concerned, you could slice off a couple of rings and pop one in some diesel for a week or so then compare the size and "feel" of the two rings. If the soaked one is significantly larger/smaller or softer I wouldn't use it. Kind of a backyard version of a fluid aging/volume swell test /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

 

[GlennT]

If I need a hose to transport fuel, I usually go to an outboard motor dealer and buy some hose that is used for connecting gas cans to outboards. That isn't always the right size, so the next step is to find adapters. So far I've been lucky and been able to cobble something together.

 

[TWINKLE_TOES]

Rob,

That was a knit pic, your post was "right On" for the stuff that matters. I am constantly fighting corrosion on my boat so I have been forced to read. Nigel Calder, has a book "Boat Owners Mechanical and Electrical Manual" which has a very good "How To" section on corrosion. I was somewhat reluctant to post the "knit pic", this board is very considerate when it comes to correction of irrelavant detail. If the true meaning can be gleened, good enough is good enough./w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Al