Anonymous Poster
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Since there is so much skeptacism on the 10% annual loss, I suggest you call your propane suplier and tell them you want to pay for your propane by the cubic foot, metered into your house, rather than by the gallon delivered into your tank. The seller has absolute conversion numbers, but I doubt you'll find one willing to sell propane by the cubic foot.
The 10% annual loss figure came from a State Propane Association a few years back when I was involved in litigation with a certain propane company (if I post the name the moderator will kill the posting). Said company operated by placing twice the industry accepted tank capacity at the customer premise, and "guaranteeing" an annual price. Said company has been sued by 17 State Attorney's General at last count, and is currently in Bankruptcy, but I won't post the name. The state association that gave out the 10% annual loss information had refused to accept the company for membership because of the dirty business tactics of said company.
Propane has some wonderful propertys, among witch, it is an excellent refrigerant gas. Propane will remain a liquid at 1 atmousphere of pressure around -20 farenheight, so you could pour it out of a tank onto the ground at that temperature, just as you could pour gasoline.
Another property of Propane is that it is an excellent penetrant. A major drawback to this property is that propane will find and penetrate every opening in the welds and fittings.
This quality is what causes the 10% annual loss. You can prove it yourself, fill a 20# tank and leave it sit for a year, and re weigh it.
You also need to be aware there are different formulations of Propane, formulated to compensate for altitude and ambient temperature, to enable the user to boil off sufficient gas for his usage. Higher altitudes and colder climates tend to use more butane in the mix.
Additionally, be aware that buried copper lines are subject to perforation from electrolytic soil reactions. This can lead to even greater losses.
Vapor delivery of propane from a tank is governed by the laws of Physics. The surface area of the liquid in the tank, the ambient temperature surrounding the tank, and the output orphace size are all major influences. Notice, when you draw down on a 20# tank, ice will form on the sides of the tank, and initially act as a pretty good indicator of liquid level in the tank. Also notice that specifications for propane heaters state that heaters burning above 30kBTU require 1 or 2 100# tanks to support the heater. A 20# tank will freeze up trying to support a 50kBTU heater at 30* F ambient temperature around the tank.
Look at a small propane forklift, and you'll notice a vaporizer connected into the machine's cooling system. I'll guarantee you that the machine won't run decently till hot water starts circulating thru the vaporizer.
A 100 gallon propane tank will support a 10hp engine by vaporization above 20* farenheight, IF the regulator is properly sized to the engine. It will NOT support the genset and the furnace, and it will not support the genset if the temperature drops to ZERO.
A 500 gal tank will support both down to about -5, but I highly recommend seperate regulators for the furnace and the genset.
NOW, as to the subject of places selling gensets by mailorder and over the internet, I recommend you stay away from them, as well as places like box stores. Neither gives a rats butt about you and your generator after the check clears. Do you really think Skippy in the orange apron knows a KVA from a killowatt?
The 10% annual loss figure came from a State Propane Association a few years back when I was involved in litigation with a certain propane company (if I post the name the moderator will kill the posting). Said company operated by placing twice the industry accepted tank capacity at the customer premise, and "guaranteeing" an annual price. Said company has been sued by 17 State Attorney's General at last count, and is currently in Bankruptcy, but I won't post the name. The state association that gave out the 10% annual loss information had refused to accept the company for membership because of the dirty business tactics of said company.
Propane has some wonderful propertys, among witch, it is an excellent refrigerant gas. Propane will remain a liquid at 1 atmousphere of pressure around -20 farenheight, so you could pour it out of a tank onto the ground at that temperature, just as you could pour gasoline.
Another property of Propane is that it is an excellent penetrant. A major drawback to this property is that propane will find and penetrate every opening in the welds and fittings.
This quality is what causes the 10% annual loss. You can prove it yourself, fill a 20# tank and leave it sit for a year, and re weigh it.
You also need to be aware there are different formulations of Propane, formulated to compensate for altitude and ambient temperature, to enable the user to boil off sufficient gas for his usage. Higher altitudes and colder climates tend to use more butane in the mix.
Additionally, be aware that buried copper lines are subject to perforation from electrolytic soil reactions. This can lead to even greater losses.
Vapor delivery of propane from a tank is governed by the laws of Physics. The surface area of the liquid in the tank, the ambient temperature surrounding the tank, and the output orphace size are all major influences. Notice, when you draw down on a 20# tank, ice will form on the sides of the tank, and initially act as a pretty good indicator of liquid level in the tank. Also notice that specifications for propane heaters state that heaters burning above 30kBTU require 1 or 2 100# tanks to support the heater. A 20# tank will freeze up trying to support a 50kBTU heater at 30* F ambient temperature around the tank.
Look at a small propane forklift, and you'll notice a vaporizer connected into the machine's cooling system. I'll guarantee you that the machine won't run decently till hot water starts circulating thru the vaporizer.
A 100 gallon propane tank will support a 10hp engine by vaporization above 20* farenheight, IF the regulator is properly sized to the engine. It will NOT support the genset and the furnace, and it will not support the genset if the temperature drops to ZERO.
A 500 gal tank will support both down to about -5, but I highly recommend seperate regulators for the furnace and the genset.
NOW, as to the subject of places selling gensets by mailorder and over the internet, I recommend you stay away from them, as well as places like box stores. Neither gives a rats butt about you and your generator after the check clears. Do you really think Skippy in the orange apron knows a KVA from a killowatt?
