LPG Tankless vs. Electric Water Heater

[_RaT_]

My plumber called today, getting ready to rough in the plumbing. He highly recommends the Rinnai tankless for LPG and has put in quite a few. I had settled on a high efficiency electric, but have now decided to add $1000 to my construction cost and use the 8.5 gpm Rinnai unit. I found that LP tank rental is $63 per year for a 250 gallon tank. Right now LP is $2.05 per gallon, but I am told it is usually less in the summer, and thats the best time to fill it up.

I still think the energy savings are marginal and the payback probably fairly long. However, this gets the hot water heater out of my attic and onto the exterior wall of the house, in the back, next to my shower. Plus, there will be remote controls in the bathrooms, to select the water temperature needed. And, at least the manufacturer claims, the tankless is supposed to last twice as long as a regular tank heater and won't flood the place when it goes out.

The placement will be 50 feet or so from the kitchen and 60 from the utility room, so there will be some wait times there, but I really don't want to spend another $1500 on a second unit.

So, in the duration of this thread I have changed from no LP and no tankless to LP and tankless. I hope this is the right decision.

Out here you can buy your own tank for propane. The main advantage is that you can buy propane from anyone including the current cheapest. When you own your tank, they know you can shop around and the price gets more competitive or at least owners of tanks have told me this. Your needs sound small and it would hardly seem worth it.

PS do they make a "high effciency" electric? Is it simply one with better insulation?

 

[mikim]

I have changed from no LP and no tankless to LP and tankless. I hope this is the right decision.........I hope so too .... I'm still on the fence on this. I'm starting the framing of the "barndo" this weekend. (vs. "condo") I plan on putting a tankless in it so that 3 years from now we'll have some experience with tankless when it comes time to build the house. Currently I'm at LP - tank .... but the tank won't be in the attic either -- what an idiot idea --- don't understand why they do that.......and oh yeah --- Allan - buy the LP tank -- don't rent it -- been there done that......The tank we have now is ~25 years old ...... at $63 a month ---- that's $18,900 ..... betcha ya can buy one cheaper.

 

[Dargo]

PS do they make a "high effciency" electric? Is it simply one with better insulation?

I can't say for sure, but when I was trying to find a small water heater for my barn there wasn't such a thing as a high efficiency electric water heater. Some wanted to brag that they were 100% efficient; putting all used energy into heat. However, as we know with an electric furnace, heating up a coil with electricity is not the least expensive way to heat. As you know, the coil is basically acting as a short causing heat. A short in a system creates a large draw.

However, in my case, a small electric water heater (20 gallon) was the best way for me to go in the bathroom in my barn. The reason is because I have it turned off 99% of the time. I only turn it on if I'm going to be in the barn for a while and think there is a possibility I'll need the shower. Also, I turn it on when I'm getting ready to mow grass on my ZTR. That way I can shower in the barn and not drag all the dirt and grass clippings in the house. Anyway, the 120 volt electric water heater works great for my barn and doesn't cost me anything unless I turn it on. Then, being that it's so small, it heats up relatively fast.

 

[kenmac]

Currently I'm at LP - tank .... but the tank won't be in the attic either -- what an idiot idea --- don't understand why they do that.......

Are you saying that the LP. tank won't be in the attic or the water tank won't be in the attic ?

My water heater is in the attic, ( I put it there )It's out of the way up there. If it's installed correctly , you will have no problems. There are a # of new houses built here with the water heater in the attic.

 

[mikim]

So - the reason to put a water heater in the attic is to get it out of the way? I'd much rather have it in the garage on a pedestal. or in it's own closet - still out of the way - easier to reach for trouble - and if it leaks - doesn't destroy the sheetrock on the ceiling / walls. I've had that flex pipe they connect with spring a spraying leak --- luckily it didn't hurt a thing - just made a mess in the closet that took a few minutes to wipe up. If I end up with a tank type in a closet - I'll line the closet walls with aluminum and have a drain in the floor...... My boss had to change an attic water heater - just about killed him getting that thing out and a new one in..... up & down pull-down attic steps.

 

[Dusty]

I believe that he meant that the heater would be in the attic. Propane tanks are not allowed to be installed inside a building.

 

[California]

Propane tanks are not allowed to be installed inside a building.

For obvious reasons. Near the crest of the Sierras (Silver Lake) we heard a huge boom. Up there the highway department uses a howitzer to clear cornices threatening the highway, so we expected to see a flagman around the next curve. Instead, we saw a couch next to the road. Later, we learned a vacant ski cabin had filled with propane from a bad stove and was blown to splinters. That couch had flown a considerable distance.

I assume this is why modern code requires that water heaters be installed in a closet that is sealed from the house and has a louvered door facing outdoors.

 

[kenmac]

and if it leaks - doesn't destroy the sheetrock on the ceiling / walls. I've had that flex pipe they connect with spring a spraying leak -



That's why I said . If it's installed correctly you will have no problems with leaking ,etc


I kinda thought he ment the water heater. I just wanted to verify. I've seen some strange things out there.

 

[midlf]

I assume this is why modern code requires that water heaters be installed in a closet that is sealed from the house and has a louvered door facing outdoors.

Don't assume the code for your area applies elsewhere. That is not how it is done here in WI. Around here gas water heaters are installed in heated spaces, as are all other water appliances. Something about -20F temps, louvers and water that doesn't mix.

 

[Alan L.]

I have changed from no LP and no tankless to LP and tankless. I hope this is the right decision.........I hope so too .... I'm still on the fence on this. I'm starting the framing of the "barndo" this weekend. (vs. "condo") I plan on putting a tankless in it so that 3 years from now we'll have some experience with tankless when it comes time to build the house. Currently I'm at LP - tank .... but the tank won't be in the attic either -- what an idiot idea --- don't understand why they do that.......and oh yeah --- Allan - buy the LP tank -- don't rent it -- been there done that......The tank we have now is ~25 years old ...... at $63 a month ---- that's $18,900 ..... betcha ya can buy one cheaper.

Actually its only $63 a year, not month. so in 20 years that would be $1500 or so. Present value much less.

How much would a 250 gallon tank cost?