LS SAYS A REGEN EVERY 2 HOURS IS NORMAL (Update) 600hrs, 50 regens

[xrjohndeere]

LS SAYS A REGEN EVERY 2 HOURS IS NORMAL

Here's my regen history, the best I have record of it. I'm sure I missed a few early on before I recognized there was a real problem and started keeping track. I have been having excessive regens almost since the tractor was purchased.

Dealership has been great at getting the tractor in for service and trying a few things, but unfortunately the problem has not been resolved. They called me yesterday after hearing back from LS and informed me that LS’ stance is that regeneration every 2 hours is normal. If regeneration is occurring more frequently than 2 hours apart, there could be an issue.

I find that unacceptable. I use the tractor at home, it is not a business machine, but based on an 8 hour work day, what should be a normal regen cycle of around 50 hours, would give me 6+ days between regens, and LS is telling me that 4 times per day is normal!

First some qualifying information.

• Tractor is run consistently between 1800 and 2400 RPM
• Always used on road diesel filled from high turnover stations in 5 gallon cans, I fill 2 or 3 cans, 10-15 gallons at a time, so there has been a lot of fuel turnover, not the same, or old fuel being used. Tried with and without fuel additive (Power Kleen or Howes) no change. At one point LS blamed fuel quality, but refused to test the fuel in the tank to prove it.
• DPF switch left in regeneration mode, I have never inhibited regeneration.

Occasionally before a regen, the DPF regeneration indicator will blink on/off at 1 sec intervals indicating a >120% soot load, then soon after it will go through a normal regen cycle without me needing to initiate it via the DPF switch. I have not kept a detailed record of when the indicator flashes before a regen, but I have noticed it several times (and I’m sure I missed it blinking a few times too.) Normally it seems to go right into regen mode (solid light) indicating 100% soot load, not >120%, but not always.

I’ve also had a few regens complete and then within 5 minutes the tractor goes into limp mode which a restart clears. That has happened maybe 3 times or so. I don’t recall what was displayed on the instrument panel other than the red ! (Vehicle control error warning indicator.)

Another thing I have noticed more recently, this may be indicative or not; I have noticed a much more pronounced diesel odor in the exhaust than in the past. While nothing like my previous non tier IV motor which was sooty, the MT240 used to burn extremely clean with no noticeable exhaust odor, now there is a diesel exhaust smell, not horrible, but definitely noticeable. Maybe now because it has 300 hours that is to be expected. There is no visible soot or black smoke, just a diesel odor that was not there previously. I may also hear injector or valve chatter that is louder then before as well.

Additionally there were a couple regens run at the dealership during troubleshooting and maintenance which I don't have listed below.

Regen time on hour meter, all regens completed successfully after ~15 minutes:

4 (ran by dealer due to error code, day after I brought it home)
101
106
112
115 (Dealership replaced DPF Sensor, removed and cleaned DPF)
118
119
148
165
175
187
191
197
213
224
234
250
254 (Dealership replaced ECU and DPF sensor. Invoice notes “REGEN OCCURRING TO OFTEN WITH NO SOOT LOAD”)
259 (In Dealership for service, ran diagnostic, nothing significant noted)
262
269
276
300

I'm looking for advice on how to move forward. First I need to be able to get the dealer to move forward since LS who is paying for the warranty work says this is NORMAL OPERATION.

Next I see 2 different paths.

1. DPF System has a fault
2. DPF system working normally, tractor producing too much soot

Comments?

Have they checked to make sure thermostat is functioning properly? I think I heard somewhere that if these engines run too cool it will cause soot build up and excessive regeneration.

 

[JCoastie]

this was going into the last regen, before the second regen light (DPF Temp) came on.
It was about 70f out, does the temp gauge seem too cool?

 

[DonRybak]

JCoastie, when the regen symbol comes on do you run it at high rpm until it goes out? When the symbol appears on my RK37 I just stop what I'm doing, kick the rpm up into the PTO range and wait. I have only 155 hours on mine in 3 1/2 years and the regen has only happened 3 times that I know of. Longest time for the regen to complete was 32 minutes. Last time a couple weeks back it was right at 23 minutes.

 

[orezok]

Lighten up. Life is too short not to have a few 'Punch' posts. You do know who Punch was right?

Yeah,I think his wife was Judy. Is that your wife?

 

[PCABE5]

is there a way to half step this, and initially see if the dealer can confirm there is excess soot, and then find the root cause?
Is there a way for them to simply check for/confirm excess soot, or is is just implied at this point?

The LS software should be able to read the soot load. It's a pressure differential sensor and they tend to be pretty reliable.

 

[Bearsixty7]

this was going into the last regen, before the second regen light (DPF Temp) came on.
It was about 70f out, does the temp gauge seem too cool?

View attachment 738585

It is lower than mine indicates when fully warmed up. Mine usually runs just to the left of the half way mark. When it goes even or just past the halfway mark, I know it's time to clean the radiator screen.

So you may be narrowing in on at least one issue

 

[Bearsixty7]

JCoastie, when the regen symbol comes on do you run it at high rpm until it goes out? When the symbol appears on my RK37 I just stop what I'm doing, kick the rpm up into the PTO range and wait. I have only 155 hours on mine in 3 1/2 years and the regen has only happened 3 times that I know of. Longest time for the regen to complete was 32 minutes. Last time a couple weeks back it was right at 23 minutes.

On mine the first time it needed to regen it surged the RPM a couple times and got my attention to look at the dash then the RPM's increased from 1500RPM where I had it at, to 1800 and it did its regen and when it was done it dropped back to 1500RPM. I continued to do my work during the regen.

Since then I run it at 1800 RPM, I did have one regen throttle up from that to 2000RPM so I don't know why it would increase RPM to a different setting, ambient temperature maybe?

Another regen happened while I was running at PTO speed and the only reason I know it did the regen was I happened to do a gauge check and saw the regen/hi temp lights on.

 

[mred2]

My regens about every 50 hours. Do you run the rpm up when it regens? It may not be burning the soot off. But I think the dealer would have done this. I would contact LS. Temp may be a little lower than mine, but not by much. To check if it is the temp of the engine, try putting something in front of the radiator. Be careful and don't over heat it. Please keep us posted. I lot of folks in Alabama.

 

[JCoastie]

@DonRybak as others have since mentioned, the ECU controls the RPM during regen to an extent, I'm usually above the RPM it needs to be, but if required, the ECU will bump the RPM up to the needed range during a regen.

 

[DonRybak]

JCoastie, the LS must be different than the RK. My RK37 has the indicator that when displayed I can push a regen button that then increases the rpm or the dealer said I can just manually kick it up with the throttle. Since yours is ECU controlled I guess that answers my question.

 

[ljjhouser]

A lot of suggestions. There is nothing normal about what you are describing.

I don't have much to add, but are you sure you are using Low Sulfer fuel and not biodiesel?
Just a thought.

 

[PCABE5]

this was going into the last regen, before the second regen light (DPF Temp) came on.
It was about 70f out, does the temp gauge seem too cool?

Most temp gauges won't be the same tractor to tractor. Do you have a OBD reader you can use? That will tell you what the temperature the ECU is seeing.

 

[JCoastie]

@ljjhouser yes, positive, low sulfur diesel

@PCABE5 I do have one, I haven't hooked it up to look though. I believe the ODBII port is inside one of the dash panels which would have to be removed during use. It is a good idea though. My goal of this thread is to get good ideas, and see if the dealership will look into the issue further even though LS says my regen frequency is perfectly normal which we all know that is complete BS.

 

[ZetorSteve]

Air filter is cleaned regularly with compressed air, I have not replaced the air or the fuel filter, as they are a long way from their rated replacement periods (500 hours) and there has been no noticed indication of required replacement such as rough idle/running, etc.

I have not noticed any engine oil usage. Oil/filter were replaced at 50hrs with conventional 15w40 with a stock LS filter and again at 150 hours with synthetic T6 15w40. Just checked the level, same a when I filled it 150hrs ago.

I don't let it idle even close to 10 minutes. a minute warm up and 2 minutes cool down, and now and again when trying to hear my wife say something, that's about it.

The engine manual recommends 10w30. I run the Rotella T5 10w30 in mine. We where having some Regen too frequent problems in a few trucks and found they where running 15w40 when the engines where supposed to have 10w30. Fixed those trucks. I doubt it's your issue but might be worth a shot?

the only way I know of to check the soot load within the DPF would be through the dealership diagnostic computer.

Use two vacuum/fuel pump gauges. Disconnect the two hoses from the DPF. Put one gauge on each fitting on the DPF. The upstream gauge should be near the same as the downstream gauge with the engine at rpm after a Regen. When the tractor wants a Regen, do the same test. The upstream gauge should be higher pressure than the downstream gauge.




Are the nipples coming out of the DPF going to the DPF sensor clear? If the upstream is clogged it can hold pressure even when the engine is off. DPF sensor will read that as a full soot load.

Very rare but the actual substrate in the DPF may have shifted causing a skewed reading to the DPF sensor. Wish I was a lot closer to you. I'd come give it a good look over an see what's going on.

 

[JCoastie]

The engine manual recommends 10w30.

Dealer recommends and uses 15w40 in this area.

From the manual:

 

[ZetorSteve]

Dealer recommends and uses 15w40 in this area.

From the manual:

View attachment 738824

The information I found was in the actual L3C19-T engine manual not the tractor manual. I can not seem to find the download right now. Always how it goes!


Regardless, yes your oil viscosity is correct for you. So let's just cross that off the list.

 

[JCoastie]

funny how that works, I found the same with my zero turn, the Kawasaki engine manual lists different values for things than the Bad Boy mower manual does.

 

[Williy]

Is this suppose to be in the on position?

• DPF switch left in regeneration mode, I have never inhibited regeneration.

To regen you should be in the upper rpm's so the
exhaust gets hot enough to burn the soot off.

I have the Yanmar YTY235C and when it regen's
the rpm's are always over 2200 the next time your
tractor regen's try getting the rpm's over 2200

willy

willy

 

[riceski]

Sounds like too much soot to me.

I have a MT352 only re-gened 1x in 50+ hours during snow removal I only noticed cause the ice was melting off the snow bucket faster than usual and looked at the light for re-gen was on only lasted about 10 minutes and noticed no difference in performance.

What would cause too much soot??

Eliminate fuel issues maybe dump and clean the fuel tank and lines. Then move on from there.

Noticed your last re-gen took 20 some hrs ?? I'd bet you got the tractor with bad fuel already in there and your tank is contaminated... my guess.

Edit:
Clean fuel injectors maybe they got clogged with bad fuel in tank from original purchase.

Maybe dump the machine at their door and leave it till fixed.

 

[CincyFlyer]

Just for fun, have you tried a different engine oil, and perhaps make sure that the oil level is not one millimeter too high?