LS SAYS A REGEN EVERY 2 HOURS IS NORMAL

[Will S]

I didn't say that LS regen interval was normal; the manufacturer did. Show me your source of information where EPA says regens shall not occur more frequently than x number of hours?

I agree, it's a BS statement on the part of the manufacturer, but if they claim it's working normal (emissions below EPA mandate), how can you prove that it is not? By saying other brands of tractors don't regen this often?

 

[Williy]

I wonder have they checked all the wiring to
see if properly grounded? Perhaps the
sensor inside the canister needs a bath
as it could be gummed up causing the
regen's so soon???

willy

 

[Fxfymn413]

Show me your source of information where EPA says regens shall not occur more frequently than x number of hours?

I do not have access to that info., but the EPA does and that is why the OP should contact them.

I spent a large part of my working life dealing with performance standards and how they are implemented. I can guarantee that somewhere in the performance standard for Tier 4 emissions there is some kind of statement that says how many times per x number of hours the system can regen under actual working conditions. Otherwise the builder could use small, less costly, equipment that regens very frequently and consequently wears out very fast.

What this really comes down to is an LS technician with what I assume is a proprietary program from LS on his/her laptop needs to read the ECM and compare it to what the factory program has established as normal operating parameters for that particular engine. Just because it is not throwing a code doesn't mean it is operating correctly.

 

[Will S]

I do not have access to that info., but the EPA does and that is why the OP should contact them.

I spent a large part of my working life dealing with performance standards and how they are implemented. I can guarantee that somewhere in the performance standard for Tier 4 emissions there is some kind of statement that says how many times per x number of hours the system can regen under actual working conditions. Otherwise the builder could use small, less costly, equipment that regens very frequently and consequently wears out very fast.

What this really comes down to is an LS technician with what I assume is a proprietary program from LS on his/her laptop needs to read the ECM and compare it to what the factory program has established as normal operating parameters for that particular engine. Just because it is not throwing a code doesn't mean it is operating correctly.

Fxfy,
I understand where you are coming from, but EPA does not specify how engine designs reduce emissions, so I don't think they would specify a limit on how frequently regens occur, (where that's the chosen method of compliance). If, as you say, a manufacturer used "small less costly equipment" that wears out very fast, I don't see how that would be a concern of the EPA, since EPA requires all engine manufacturers to warrant the emissions system for a specified number or years.

So a manufacturer that used a system that wears out too fast, will cost that company (recurring losses), for the warranty replacements.

If EPA has in fact specified a regen minimum interval, that document should be available to the public (google search). I searched epa.gov and several other sites, and didn't find anything relating to that. If such a document exists, you should be able to find it.

 

[sd455dan]

Fxfy,
I understand where you are coming from, but EPA does not specify how engine designs reduce emissions, so I don't think they would specify a limit on how frequently regens occur, (where that's the chosen method of compliance). If, as you say, a manufacturer used "small less costly equipment" that wears out very fast, I don't see how that would be a concern of the EPA, since EPA requires all engine manufacturers to warrant the emissions system for a specified number or years.

So a manufacturer that used a system that wears out too fast, will cost that company (recurring losses), for the warranty replacements.

If EPA has in fact specified a regen minimum interval, that document should be available to the public (google search). I searched epa.gov and several other sites, and didn't find anything relating to that. If such a document exists, you should be able to find it.

Just a question here.
During regeneration aren't pollutant's released from the exhaust system increased???
If so, and if most tractors do it every 50-200 hours, wouldn't that mean that this tractor is in fact exceeding overall allowable pollution output per it's hours of overall use?

ps. google search of basic terms of DPF regeneration and pollution yielded this:

Does DPF regeneration cause pollution?


A side effect of DPF regeneration is the increased emission of gaseous pollutants and particulate matter

 

[rademamj1]

I came in late on this thread, however this sounds very much like an fuel injector problem. One injector or multiple injectors are providing an over supply of fuel to the engine, and the unburned diesel is forcing short period regens. Most regens tend to be in the 18 to 38 hour cycles. Typically, the larger the engine, the longer the regen period. Two hour regens are definitely a cause for concern. I would strongly encourage your dealer to evaluate the health of your injectors using diagnostic software. They can identify which injector is not supplying the correct fuel.

 

[rScotty]

Fxfy,
I understand where you are coming from, but EPA does not specify how engine designs reduce emissions, so I don't think they would specify a limit on how frequently regens occur, (where that's the chosen method of compliance). If, as you say, a manufacturer used "small less costly equipment" that wears out very fast, I don't see how that would be a concern of the EPA, since EPA requires all engine manufacturers to warrant the emissions system for a specified number or years.

So a manufacturer that used a system that wears out too fast, will cost that company (recurring losses), for the warranty replacements.

If EPA has in fact specified a regen minimum interval, that document should be available to the public (google search). I searched epa.gov and several other sites, and didn't find anything relating to that. If such a document exists, you should be able to find it.

Why doesn't someone just read the EPA regulation and find out? Or call the EPA and ask?

 

[rademamj1]

Just a question here.
During regeneration aren't pollutant's released from the exhaust system increased???
If so, and if most tractors do it every 50-200 hours, wouldn't that mean that this tractor is in fact exceeding overall allowable pollution output per it's hours of overall use?

ps. google search of basic terms of DPF regeneration and pollution yielded this:

Does DPF regeneration cause pollution?


A side effect of DPF regeneration is the increased emission of gaseous pollutants and particulate matter

Tier4 emissions using DOC/DPF certainly don't increase gaseous and particulate emissions, but effectively decrease said emissions and most effectively the diesel particulates. The EPA and industry leaders throughly evaluated moving from Tier3 to Tier4 emissions standards. The typical Tier4 system increased tractor costs about $3200, with the DOC removing most gaseous pollution, while the DPF collects carbon particulates until they are ready for regeneration burn.

In fact, The Tier 4 standards require that emissions of PM and NOx be reduced by about 90% over Tier3 emmisions. Such emission reductions can be achieved through the use of control technologies—including advanced exhaust gas aftertreatment.

At no point does the EPA define needed regeneration intervals or regeneration standards, but rather stays focused on particulate emission standards.

 

[Will S]

Just a question here.
During regeneration aren't pollutant's released from the exhaust system increased???
If so, and if most tractors do it every 50-200 hours, wouldn't that mean that this tractor is in fact exceeding overall allowable pollution output per it's hours of overall use?

ps. google search of basic terms of DPF regeneration and pollution yielded this:

Does DPF regeneration cause pollution?


A side effect of DPF regeneration is the increased emission of gaseous pollutants and particulate matter

It is my understanding that when regen occurs, the very high temperature in the DPF burns off the soot, no Nox, so no, there are no harmful emissions released. If the DPF was just collecting exhaust soot, but then releasing it during regen, that never would have met EPA regs.

Maybe someone will chime in here who actually is an expert of regen systems.

 

[rScotty]

Just a question here.
During regeneration aren't pollutant's released from the exhaust system increased???
If so, and if most tractors do it every 50-200 hours, wouldn't that mean that this tractor is in fact exceeding overall allowable pollution output per it's hours of overall use?

ps. google search of basic terms of DPF regeneration and pollution yielded this:

Does DPF regeneration cause pollution?


A side effect of DPF regeneration is the increased emission of gaseous pollutants and particulate matter

I've wondered the same thing.... Is DPF a legal & political solution rather than a real solution? Does it really work?

How in the world does running an engine faster all day and then periodically burning off the carbon benefit anything? Doesn't DPF simply take big chunks of soot and make it into smaller types of carbon? If we add in a regeneration cycle that adds up to more carbon in the atmosphere at the end of the day.... not less.

rScotty