Lubricants for Jinma 284

YukonJeff · May 4, 2004

Just bought a 284 last week. What hydraulic, and gear oils are you guys using. I was told buy the dealer that he used 15W40 all around. That sounded o.k. for the engine, but not the trans nor the hydraulic system. Also, I'm getting some seeping of hydraulic (?) fluid from the filler plug nut. Anyone recommend a good gasket. I thought about using some Baker's Seal, but I'm open to suggestions.

Additionally, the manuals supplied are weak on quanities for the various reservoirs. Any infor would help for this model.

Soundguy · May 4, 2004

They told you 15/40 for the gear oil too? I've heard it all now...

Soundguy

YukonJeff · May 4, 2004

Yeah, 15W40. Sounds strange huh? Wonder how long it will be before all the seals/o-rings start to.... I think I will have to trust my instincts here and go with the engine takes engine oil; transmission takes trans oil; hydraulic takes and so on.

Harrygoodwrench · May 4, 2004

This has been debated many times on the Jinmas. All I can say is I use 15w 40 in engine, 80w 90 in front diff and trans and universal huydraulic oil for hydraulics in my Jinma 224. Some prefer engine= same, 30 w non detergent in trans, front diff and some type of hydraulic fluid. Check these links for lots of info on Jinmas.

http://nortrac.proboards26.com/index.cgi

http://www.johnstractor.homestead.com/

YukonJeff · May 4, 2004

Thank you sir...sometimes I've just have to hear myself out, especially when I have a conflict with past experiences. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

greg_g · May 5, 2004

Since the front diff and tranny are vented, many conventional gear oils will foam. I recommend non-foaming 75W90 in both. Non-foaming is important. In cold conditions the "universal" stuff (303 oil) is too thick for the suction side hydraulic filter. I recommend AW32 (10wt) for almost instant hydraulics availability in all weather. 15W40 is just fine for both the engine and the injector pump. If you really want to be **** about it, you COULD use compressor pump oil in the injector pump.

//greg//

Soundguy · May 5, 2004

Couldn't a universal oil.. like jd 303 be put in the diffs and tranny? Ford/NH all have vented diffs at least in their gear tractors, and use the 134d oil.. ( a universal hyd/tranny/diffy ) oil.. Non foaming etc.

Soundguy

greg_g · May 5, 2004

( Couldn't a universal oil.. like jd 303 be put in the diffs and tranny? )
The "universal" in this case means one oil for both hydraulics and transmission. Not a few tractors have only one fill point for both, my Yanmar being of that type. But it's hydraulic flow rate is engineered accordingly - to handle the thicker viscosity. The OE Jinma filter is not.

When you have a tractor like the JM284 - and my Kama - there's absolutely no reason not to use the RIGHT lube for the right job. Transmissions and differentials are geared devices - use GEAR oil.

//greg//

Soundguy · May 6, 2004

( Transmissions and differentials are geared devices - use GEAR oil.
)

Better read those oil specs a bit closer...Both JD 303, NH 134d oils, ( and hytran, and hyguard.. ) and the equivalents sold at many stores under many brands as UTF are all universal oils. and are speced for final drives , hydraulics and transmissions . They are also able to be used in extreme pressure steering gear boxes, worm drives, and power steering systems. They are in effect a 'gear oil'.. as well as many other things. For instance.. NH specs use that 134d oil in almost all tractor applications for the whole tractor ( front and rear final drives, hydraulics, power steering, steering gearbox, wet brake systems, belt pulley oil baths, transmissions, including hydro setups, front axles and hubs, in situations wher ethe front axle/hub is seperated from the final drive ) except the crankcase, in all but extreme temperature situations.

But yes.. if there is a manufacturer spec.. I would stick to that.

Soundguy

greg_g · May 6, 2004

( ( Better read those oil specs a bit closer...Soundguy )
And you better read my POST a little closer Chris. If you want to put 30wt universal in your JD and NH, I make no argument. But the suction side hydraulic filter in the Jinma 2xx series just won't pull 30wt ANYTHING in cold weather.

Since it's a single loop system (same circuit for steering and TPH), you can't even steer - unless and until you wait for the pump activity to warm the heavy oil up enough to attain normal flow rate. The colder the weather, the longer it takes to get hydraulics. 10wt AW32 avoids this.

Jinmas also employ ancient transmissions and differential technologies; flat/square gear faces, no fancy bevels, no synchros. Pure old fashioned grunt. Again, use universal anything you want in NH and JD. But use GEAR oil in Jinma transmission and differentials. Non-foaming gear oil at that.

//greg//

Soundguy · May 7, 2004

I think we are miscommunicating here...

Are the jinma diffy's and hyds in the same sump? If so.. putting gear oil in the diffy.. is putting gear oil for the hyds.. if it won't suck 30w.. it aint gonna suck 80w90 either.

I was trying to refer to putitng utf in the diffy.. I probably wasn't clear on that point. I went back and reread our messages.. and I clearly was only talking about tranny and diffy.. not hyd and steering.. However.. as I said earlier.. if the hyds share a sump with the diffy or tranny.. you are stuck with a lighter oil.. not gear oil..

And utf that conforms to the NH 134d spec is fine for spur ( straight cut ) gears. Nh reccomends that is the replacement tranny/diffy oil in our N's and the models from 39 to 47 are all straight cut spur type gears.. with the helical gears coming out in the 8n, in late 47.

I'm not sure where the 30wt universal comes in.. I havn't seen that anywhere...

Also.. as far as sae weights go.. I believe that nh 134d oil is actually closer to a 40 or 50wt if you look at a pouring point / viscosity scale.. though hyd and tranny oils arn't rated and measured on the sae scale.. though some tests are applicable... like simple viscosity, and pour rate at certain temperatures.. While the generic utf oils.. specifically tractor supplies brand, is a 10w20 oil. with an addative package that meets the 134d and jd /etc specs.. but not the weight specs.. etc. These typically contain a mild ep to ep addative package making them suitable for sliding gear surfaces..
Straight hyd fluid.. like a jack oil would typically be an sae 20.. while atf fluis like for automatic trannies, etc.. would be in the range of 10 to 20.. etc.

Soundguy

greg_g · May 7, 2004

( Are the jinma diffy's and hyds in the same sump? )
Absolutely not Chris, which is why I used the Yanmar as an example of a tractor that DOES. The Jinma 2xx series has an dedicated 9 liter hydraulic reserviour situated between the rear axle housing and the operator's seat.

( I'm not sure where the 30wt universal comes in.. I havn't seen that anywhere...)
I was referring to Universal TransHyraulic Fluid (UTF) type 303. I think the number has carried over from an old John Deere spec. I always considered it a 30wt, but you may be correct about the 10W20. Even at that, multiviscosities don't thin out till they're at their design temperature. Unless you're the patient type that doesn't mind waiting 15 minutes for your steering to work, it's too thick for cold weather Jinmas.

Your post was informative, for somebody that owns a New Holland. But I still consider 10wt AW32 (ISO32) the hydraulic fluid of choice for all weather operation of Chinese tractors that use THIS filter.

And if YukonJeff lives in his namesake location, I don't think he wants anything thicker than 10wt in HIS Jinma hydraulics either.

//greg//

Soundguy · May 7, 2004

No problem.. that post cleared it up a lot.. simple misunderstanding.

When i saw you refer to a yanmar.. I thought you were compairing the common sump... my fault. ( see.. I knew it was just a miscommunication thing.. )

Since it does have a closed hyd system, then no doubt that plain hyd fluid will be better than a multi-purpose 'compromise' type fluid.. for the main reason as you point out.. it is thicker, and the input strainer can't handle the flow rate of the thick stuff.

Most of us ford and IH and JD/yanmar guys are spoiled on very tolerant hyd setups, as many of these are either common sump.. or even if closed system.. like and NAA still use the heavier weight 134d/303 oil inthe hyds.. and some liek the 8n, use a scotch uoke piston pump that pumps 90wt oil thru the hydraulics... pretty stiff stuff!.

One question.. on the jinma with power steering.. do they not have a manual steering gear which is assisted byt he hyds? Most of the tractor power steering setups that I've seen, will steer in the event of hyd failure... ( with a decent amount of exceptions )... just not sure how the jinma is setup.. guessing it is complete hydrostatic steering... with no connectionfromthe wheel to the steering linkage. Not a bad setup though.. many units are that way.. makes for super easy steering.. unlike the 'assisted' units that are still very 'reactive' to ground obstacles when your rim hits something..

thanks for the chat.

Soundguy

YukonJeff · May 7, 2004

Wow! I did not realize this would generate a lot of discussion. But I really appreciate the interaction and I am learning a lot. I have not been on a tractor since I was a kid. I have stayed in the "wrench turning" business a little since then, but no work on D-tractors.

Greg, what you are saying sounds logical. I think the non-foaming oils should be avoided. I also think that thinner wt oils will work a lot better in colder weather, however, I'm out here in good ole Oklahoma....and its getting hot.

Thanks to you all. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

greg_g · May 7, 2004

( ( One question.. on the jinma with power steering.. do they not have a manual steering gear which is assisted byt he hyds? )
No mechanical steering at all. Steering wheel goes into a hydraulic controller, which is then connected by hoses to the steering cylinder. Guess hydrostatic is a reasonable description. No hydraulics, no steering. Little weird getting used to, as there is no centering and no stops. Steering wheel just continues to do 360s while you work merrily along. There are mechanical stops to limit front wheel travel, but that's it.

//greg//

SPIKER · May 7, 2004

I use the universal b303 type spec hyd fluid form tsc. mine starts and runs in cold weather just fine, but it does take a couple min warming up to get the 3 pt to lift, but steering & FEL usually resond with in 10 sec of starting even in sub 0 conditions. (don't ask how I know it starts and runs that cold as but she plowed the drive and pulled the car just fine at that temp (though my ears and hands didn't work nearly as well after a half hr out in it! ( /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif )

Mark /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

greg_g · May 7, 2004

( Greg, what you are saying sounds logical. I think the non-foaming oils should be avoided. I also think that thinner wt oils will work a lot better in colder weather, however, I'm out here in good ole Oklahoma....and its getting hot. )

No Jeff, I'm ADVOCATING non-foaming lubricants in the tranny/diff and in the hydraulics. You won't see it yet, with that Chinese motor oil in your tranny. But if you change to "regular" gear oil, the tranny and differential dipsticks will look like they just came out of a rootbeer float. All those air bubbles are problematic.

And I'd be surprised if you have milder winters that I do here in WKY, so the AW32 hydraulic fluid should work equally as well for you.

//greg//

YukonJeff · May 7, 2004

Greg,

Chinese stuff was drained upon assembly by the dealer. I guess he knew the stuff they poured into the tanks was foul quality. What I have been told by his folks is that they serviced ALL resevoirs with 15W40 (tranny, diffs, hydros, etc.) IT JUST FLYS IN THE FACE OF MY UPBRINGING! Why would they do this when we have stuff on the market that is specific for the component (s). I suppose that I have too much aviation maintenance in my background (and trying to apply it to a tractor). If we use the wrong stuff in an aircraft...eventually big events will happen. Forgive me for being ****, but I want to do what is right for the investment made.

As for the weather conditions here in OK, it generally is rather mild here during winter. I just move here from Lousiville, KY last fall. I know your area (W-KY) very well. I'm orginally from Northwest TN, and can attest to the type climates for all (KY, TN, & OK). One thing we do get here is a lot of WIND.

Next oil change I plan on going with 15w40 in the engine, 10W for the hydro, and 75W for the gears. Thanks for advice! I just wish this machine had a good operators/parts manual that was in REAL ENGLISH.

greg_g · May 7, 2004

Good luck with your Jinma Jeff. Don't forget that this engine doesn't have it's own fuel injector oil line. There's a small (4 oz I think) internal reserviour that must be periodically checked. There have been cases of fuel contamination, so it's a good idea to familiarize yourself with the drain & fill procedure.

//greg//

SPIKER · May 7, 2004

YuconJeff:

I was in Aircraft Maintenance for 6 years as a (HYDRAULIC SPECILEST) and was crosstrained into AR (airo-Repair) and then on into OT&E (Operations Test & Evaluations.) All under SAC (once in SAC you were stuck. I spent 4 yrs @ McConnell AFB Whichita KS. working B1B's and KC135r's last 2 yrs @ Edwards AFB CA. working B2A flight test program.. Lots of fun and yes we/I was taught to be **** about the fluids... just got to remember you won't fall 20,000 feet if you're tractor hydraulics FREEZE UP as the ambiant temp @ 20K is 50 below or so... not often will be be on our tractors when it is that temp! /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif at least I HOPE not!

I was in 86~92 how about you're self?

Mark MN /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif