Lucky owner of few cubic yds of unidentified gunk

   / Lucky owner of few cubic yds of unidentified gunk #11  
Can you do some research to see what industry the previous owner worked in. This might give you a clue as to what it is. Chances are the it isn't any thing good, because he went to the trouble to bury it. Figure out how much there is and start putting it out with the trash for now. It might take a year to get rid of it, but it is better than spending thousands of dollars to have it removed. Who knows how many more "sites" are on the property. Sometimes like this, you are better off not knowing any more than you already do. If you learn that it is hazardous waste, you have a legal obligation to notify the state Department of Environmental Protection. How old it the home? Could it have been buried there before the home was built? Anything in a plastic bag that is wet is going to have a horrible smell. One thought is that it might be the ground up newspaper that used to be used for insulation. If you really want to find a lab to analyze it, send me a PM. It isn't cheap, but it can be done. Try drying it and see if it will burn. That will give you a idea how to get rid of it..... burn it...
 
   / Lucky owner of few cubic yds of unidentified gunk
  • Thread Starter
#12  
The house has a fireplace and it was very obviously used by the original owners. The area used to be a farm but this stuff is buried just below ground level ( about 10 inches ) and it is very close to the house (the first pit I dug up a couple of years ago was literally right next to the house up against the foundation) - so I am almost 100% sure it was put there by the original owners of the house. We are the third set of owners and the original owners were I guess a bunch of slobs ( according to my next door neighbor who has been here for 40 + years). They used to have all sorts of junk in the yard and I have found car parts and stuff like that buried also. So I would not put it past the guy to bury ashes in big pits in his own yard. The area has been suburban for at least 50 - 60 years - my house is 45 years old and is surrounded on both sides by houses built at the same time. The biggest reason I thought it might not be ashes is because of the smell - I thought that something burned would not give off a smell like this or have this consistency. But I have never dug stuff out of the ground before that has been there for decades either.
 
   / Lucky owner of few cubic yds of unidentified gunk #13  
If the neighbor knew the original owner, ask him if he knows what it is. He might have the answers you need. If it is ashes, then you can safely spread it on the ground and till it in. I don't think that someone would put ashes into a plastic bag, but you never know. I just dump my ashes on the lawn all winter long.
 
   / Lucky owner of few cubic yds of unidentified gunk #14  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( battleship grey in color and has the consistency of bread dough or maybe play dough. It also smells pretty bad. )</font>

Sounds just like the clumping type cat litter. Sounds like a lot of cat litter though.
 
   / Lucky owner of few cubic yds of unidentified gunk #15  
Well, la-tee-da! I think I now own the house of the relatives of YOUR previous owner! THis place is 140 years old and I am not at all surprised about finding old 'pits' around. The 'compost' from them is so different from the surroundings. Most of the area has boulders, rocks, sandstone and sand. But there are occasions of fine dirt with occasional chicken bones, handleless butter knives and shards of crockery. But...THere are several area of what you're describing over here, also. Burn pits with the top half of 5G buckets melted away and inside is a bunch of 'dirt' with the center bone from a round steak! Parts from a tv or computer, there was a small circuit board and a tiny speaker. I don't think most of that was from the nineteenth century. Layers of plywood from household cabinets, some with a hinge still on or maybe the small tongue latch still attached and not completly burnt. THis stuff was done within the past ten years. I believe trash collection was invented a bit before then. Thousands of nails, bolts, lag screws....Pitiful!
 
   / Lucky owner of few cubic yds of unidentified gunk #16  
I would talk with your lawyer and find out your options. I believe you are responsible to notify EPA or someone. It may cause you some problems if you cover it up and someone else notifies the authorities.

I requested and received a haz mat clause from the previous land owner and the realtor when I purchased by property two years ago.
 
   / Lucky owner of few cubic yds of unidentified gunk #17  
I've run into unauthorized dumps before. They can be a nightmare. The City Engineer of one of our client cities used to jokingly hate me, because I would walk across City land and 55 gallon drums would spring to the surface. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

If you want the stuff analyzed, you need an environmental laboratory. If you can’t find one in the phone book, call a local geotechnical or soil boring firm. They often do hazwaste sites, and can recommend a good lab. They may even have their own lab. Talk to the lab and work out what minimum tests you need to do.

Now hang onto your hat. The last time I had hazwaste lab work done, it was about $1,200 per sample! The usual test panel is for heavy metals, pesticides, and organic chemicals.

If your stuff passes, then it can be disposed of in any landfill. You may need copies of the test results if the landfill operator challenges you. If it shows up as hazardous, you’re screwed. You now own the Love Canal. If it’s hazwaste, plan on cleanup and disposal costs of at least six digits. You cannot escape this liability by selling your property. For this reason, you may want to have your attorney submit the samples, thereby providing a blind address and giving you breathing room until you figure out what is up. Be sure your attorney talks to the lab first, and does the Chain of Custody paperwork correctly, or you may have peed away the money for the first tests and need to have the tests re-done to make them legal. That's an easy requirement to get right, but it must be done right.

I’d want to proceed very cautiously here. If you send up a rocket, people with suits and clipboards will fall out of the sky on you. OTOH, the stuff could be killing you.

If you have hazwaste, then the Federal provisions of CERCLA, The Comprehensive Environmental Response, Compensation, and Liability Act, come into play. This is the stuff that puts whole villages of lawyers’ kids through college. The good news is that the previous owner, and the one previous to him, if he placed the waste, all the way back to Adam, is still on the hook. Everyone who ever handled the waste is probably on the hook, including the brother in law whose wheelbarrow was stolen to move it. It’s called strict joint and several liability. It’s a big hook with numerous barbs. The bad news is that you are on the hook unless you can get off. There is an “innocent landowner defense,” that may help you.

The usual procedure in these cases, is to try to find someone in the chain with deep pockets.

This is not good news, unless you can figure out yourself that the stuff is harmless (e.g. old fireplace ashes) and you can make it go away without sending up any rockets.
 
   / Lucky owner of few cubic yds of unidentified gunk
  • Thread Starter
#18  
Sounds like you got the relatives house! . According to my next door neighbor the town I am in has had trash pickup for quite some time and before that there was a town dump so for the entire time my house has existed there has been a legitimate place to get rid of trash besides burying it in the backyard. Why somebody would go to the effort of digging a hole in the ground to bury stuff when they could just bring it to the dump is beyond me. The original owners did appear to be somewhat lazy. There was ample evidence around the house of them taking the cheap and easy route every time a repair had to be made so maybe the guy was just too lazy to go to the dump.
 
   / Lucky owner of few cubic yds of unidentified gunk #19  
Another thought... You may be able to take it to a university. The people in the enviro-labs have to learn somewhere. I'm sure that some college or university somewhere would love to check it out. I don't know, this is purely speculation on my part, but it would likely be less expensive than the $1200/sample at the commercial lab.

Good luck, I hope this doesn't turn out to be a nightmare for you.
 
   / Lucky owner of few cubic yds of unidentified gunk #20  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Now hang onto your hat. The last time I had hazwaste lab work done, it was about $1,200 per sample! The usual test panel is for heavy metals, pesticides, and organic chemicals.)</font>

Might be cheaper to re-bury it and move.
 

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