M5 series clutch usage

[Wormwood]

I have an M5-111 with the 12speed trans & the optional creep gear. My dealer says I'm SUPPOSED to select my range then gear after which I can engage the clutch & then select F or R for the direction. The problem is in the real world tractors are used so much more than in the pasture or fields, additionally in Arkansas we have hills which means you're gonna use more than a single gear & more often change ranges. This doesn't even consider loader work which I have no idea how it could be done without clutching?

Okay so with all this in mind, how does everyone else use the clutch & is the clutch strong enough to handle abuse or is it not intended to be used very much in its design? I understand if the clutch ever needs repair it would mean splitting the case halves so, I kinda need to get an idea now as opposed to later after the tractor's in the shop....

Thanks in advance for anything!

Regards,
Steve

 

[ptsg]

Basically the Main gear shift is synchronized while the Range shift is not. This means you have to use the clutch to change gears, however, the main shift since it's synchronized, you can do it on the go. The Range shift, you must stop to change ranges.

Being a hydraulic shuttle tractor, you don't have to use the clutch to switch between forward and reverse.

You don't really have a dry clutch. You have two wet clutch packs, one for forward and other for reverse. Whenever you press the clutch pedal, it simply diverts the flow from the clutch packs directly to the tank.

 

[Wormwood]

Ptsg,
Thanks that does make since and it does have it's advantages especially while out in the fields, I can leave the power trans alone & focus on my rake, cutter, or blade, however, I still need to do loader work as well. For me, approaching & loading the FEL using only the F/N/R is difficult as best. You never have control over the engagement in the direction, you move the shuttle into the direction and hold on. It would be better if you could reliably move to N but there's such a small difference between F/N/R you're never quite sure if you landed on N, also while doing loader work the tractor may be rocking or jerking which makes selecting the direction even harder. Then there's the situation when you may have dug in to a load more than the tractor can handle & the tractor is loading up. Shifting the shuttle takes too long to change directions in this case & you're either leaving a couple of ruts or stalling the tractor. So the end result for me is, use the clutch. Except the dealer says that's not the way to use the tractor, clutching like you would a vehicle. So I'm trying to figure out if other folks are using the clutch in the same manner or not.


Steve

 

[ptsg]

Well, I can only help you with the theory as I've never drove a Hydraulic shuttle tractor before. I only sat on a Kubota M7 once on a local agricultural fair. :laughing:

You would still feather the clutch when approaching a pile, so you can stop, lift/curl the loader and so on. But I think you're doing this with a high engine RPM right? A combination of throttle pedal/clutch would make it smoother I think.

Hopefully someone more experienced will chime in and help you.

 

[Tx Jim]

I agree with ptsg. The M5-111 has a damper assembly very similar to my M7040 that has no linkage(note photo below) to disengage it. As pstg stated pushing clutch pedal down just opens a hyd valve. When handling rd bales with FEL on my M7040 that I depress clutch pedal to help me handle bales more precisely but sometimes at low ground speed/low engine rpm's I shift reverser without depressing clutch pedal.

 

[SDT]

I have an M5-111 with the 12speed trans & the optional creep gear. My dealer says I'm SUPPOSED to select my range then gear after which I can engage the clutch & then select F or R for the direction. The problem is in the real world tractors are used so much more than in the pasture or fields, additionally in Arkansas we have hills which means you're gonna use more than a single gear & more often change ranges. This doesn't even consider loader work which I have no idea how it could be done without clutching?

Okay so with all this in mind, how does everyone else use the clutch & is the clutch strong enough to handle abuse or is it not intended to be used very much in its design? I understand if the clutch ever needs repair it would mean splitting the case halves so, I kinda need to get an idea now as opposed to later after the tractor's in the shop....

Thanks in advance for anything!

Regards,
Steve

I have an M9960 with 12 speed hydro shuttle.

I always use the foot clutch when changing gears or direction. Reversing direction at high speeds without stopping (or slowing significantly) is abuse, though theoretically it can be done. Reversing directions at low speeds without using the foot clutch is OK, though I rarely do so.

Of course, attempting to change ranges before coming to a complete stop is abuse.

SDT

 

[ovrszd]

When filling the FEL bucket against a pile you definitely have to use the foot clutch. The same for moving the tractor a small distance. Ride the foot clutch to accomplish these tasks.

Once constant movement is obtained you no longer need the foot clutch until you want to shift gears. Some people actually use the shuttle lever for this and skip using the foot clutch. Either accomplishes the same thing, disengages the clutch and forward movement.

Always come to a complete stop to change ranges. Always.

This will all come to you with use. I love my Hydraulic Shuttle 12spd. 6 gears in 2 ranges. So range changes are minimized.

We are all assuming your M5 is setup similarly??

After a few hours of use you will figure out how to use it.

 

[JWR]

I think there is a lot of commonality in user habits/practices with hydraulic shuttle tractors even when they are widely differing machines. I had a JD47600 20 years ago with what JD calls a "Power Reverser" transmission. After initial experience with the 4700 I began to use the combination of the foot clutch along with the fwd/rev lever as a routine habit. It does not take long to get very smooth with that mode of operation which seems both user-friendly and protective of the machine. I would say that I used the "fwd/rev by lever only" at most 10% of the time in the 11 years I used it. I do not/have not owned an M5 or any Kubota with an hydraulic fwd/rev clutch but I would not be worried about your clutch when using the tractor in the "combination of the foot clutch along with the fwd/rev lever" mode. I'm betting most users end up doing that and it will make things easier on your clutch, not harder.

 

[Farmer495]

I use Kubota hydraulic shuttle maybe 80% of the time with no clutch pedal. Snow removal, loader work, field work etc.

I can load manure from a pile and dump into spreader and never touch the clutch pedal. Pull into neutral when dumping into spreader and in pile once bucket is full. Do the same stacking round bales.

I pull a round baler and pull the shuttle into N to tie the bale, dump the bale, then back into F.

I never change F-R in high gears (H2 and up for me) and only move the shuttle lever with engine close to idle and movement has all but stopped. I do not set the throttle ever for loader work, use foot feed pedal.

I use N on the shuttle lever, main stick and range stay in gear 100% of the time.

I will use the clutch pedal when shifting gears, i.e. on the road. You do not have to move the shuttle to N if using the clutch pedal.

Becomes natural after awhile. I find myself wanting to pull the non existent shuttle lever into gear on the other dry clutch non shuttle loader tractor

I am very much a clutch person, moved the left foot pedal plenty over the years and still do on the dry clutch tractors, but don't miss pushing it on the hyd shuttle one. Spend a day picking round bales up and hauling and stacking with dry clutch and no shuttle and count how many times clutch pushed in combined with having to use the brakes to hold it still while you move the stick.

Your tractor, drive it the way you want.

 

[Wormwood]

Okay so I called my salesman at the Kubota dealership & got some clarification. Things like the clutch depressing only operates a valve as opposed to a mechanical linkage or clutch basket or whatever is correct & that the F/N/R is designed for use in the pastures with implements in tow. It's easier on the system to allow the tractor to quickly engage the powertrain rather than our imprecise left foot. However the clutch system is a wet system that is extremely robust & shouldn't need any maintenance. Additionally loader operations would require clutching & it's designed with that in mind but it's up to the operator how to control both the direction & engagement of the powertrain. He said if you try using the F/N/R daily that you'll find yourself using it more & more, which I believe, but the end take away is that it's okay to clutch when I need to so long as I keep my foot off the clutch peddle when not clutching.... **** Hydrostat's make you develop some bad operating habits!!! Guess I need to consider an M7 at some point, ummmmm no!