Mahindra 5570 emission problems

[DavesTractor]

I realize that fully Dave. Maybe what you don't realize that this kind of financing is specifically for buying the tractor and nothing else. Both companies are operating under the same umbrella. He is not taking about a loan to buy a house or something, it is specifically for the tractor and only for the tractor. There is quite enough president on this for any idiot attorney to fly with. Tons of it infact. If this dodge didn't work for the auto companies then Mahindra can't hide behind it either. It even got sticky regarding builders and home mortgages recently. It's very simple and basic black letter contract law that boils down to value received for value paid. Mahindra has an obligation to get the friggin machine fixed, period and to be quick about it or the deal is off.

I disagree with most of what you said, except that Mahindra has an obligation to fix the tractor. And they will. I'm more familiar with contracts than you might imagine. I'm not saying that threatening or not making payments is ineffective. Because as a practical matter, it might cause a manager at MFUSA to call over to a manager at MUSA just to let them know that a customer is throwing a fit, and that might prompt action. But the finance contract and the warranty contract are two separate matters and if you don't pay your bills, your credit report will reflect that.

MFUSA is focused on Mahindra tractors, just like John Deere Credit is focused on JD tractors. But they will and often do finance other brands and also trailers and non-Mahindra implements. Make no mistake, they are in business to make as many loans as they can. That is their profit. They don't sell equipment, they sell money.

There are always ways to throw a stink and cause some grease to be thrown at the squeaky wheel. But it really works better to just get in touch with your dealer and with the MUSA service rep if needed and work out a solution. I think to offer on any problem thread that a poster ought to quit making payments is poor advice. Pitching a fit to get attention ought to be way down the list of possible solutions. I'm not saying there is never a time for more drastic measures. I can think of several that I won't mention. But becoming "that customer" that no dealer wants to do business with and that the OEM wishes would have bought a different brand is not on my short list of things to do. You might win that battle and yet lose the war.

I think we are drifting pretty far off topic. I'll concede that you know how to pitch a fit if you will concede that it should not be done early on or on every problem. Deal? :thumbsup:

 

[dickfoster]

I disagree with most of what you said, except that Mahindra has an obligation to fix the tractor. And they will. I'm more familiar with contracts than you might imagine. I'm not saying that threatening or not making payments is ineffective. Because as a practical matter, it might cause a manager at MFUSA to call over to a manager at MUSA just to let them know that a customer is throwing a fit, and that might prompt action. But the finance contract and the warranty contract are two separate matters and if you don't pay your bills, your credit report will reflect that.

MFUSA is focused on Mahindra tractors, just like John Deere Credit is focused on JD tractors. But they will and often do finance other brands and also trailers and non-Mahindra implements. Make no mistake, they are in business to make as many loans as they can. That is their profit. They don't sell equipment, they sell money.

There are always ways to throw a stink and cause some grease to be thrown at the squeaky wheel. But it really works better to just get in touch with your dealer and with the MUSA service rep if needed and work out a solution. I think to offer on any problem thread that a poster ought to quit making payments is poor advice. Pitching a fit to get attention ought to be way down the list of possible solutions. I'm not saying there is never a time for more drastic measures. I can think of several that I won't mention. But becoming "that customer" that no dealer wants to do business with and that the OEM wishes would have bought a different brand is not on my short list of things to do. You might win that battle and yet lose the war.

I think we are drifting pretty far off topic. I'll concede that you know how to pitch a fit if you will concede that it should not be done early on or on every problem. Deal? :thumbsup:

The last time I looked my credit score was sitting at about 835 and I've never put up with any BS and not likely to start. The less that did the less of this kind of crap we'd have to put up with. People will get away with what they can.
As I've said from the start, it's a matter of last resort but if they aren't willing to take care of it then I would simply stop paying for it until they did. If they financed it, it's the same deal and any judge is likely to see it that way too. If they start dinging your credit in a case like this then you have cause for further action including asking for punitive damages. Simply ask yourself, Dave if the buyer doesn't make the payments, as he normally should, is Mahindra allowed to repossess the machine? If so then it's the same deal, period. No matter how many pieces of paper there are, they are inextricably linked and part of the same deal. There is nothing complicated or involved about this, ALL CONTRACTS ARE TWO WAY STREETS. Not saying you'd ever be this way, because I don't think you would. Not all dealers are as good as you are but every barrel has it's share of bad apples that need sorting out. I'm pretty sure that if Mahindra saw a lot of this sort of thing coming from the same dealership, they'd likely get rid of them as well they should.

 

[DavesTractor]

The last time I looked my credit score was sitting at about 835 and I've never put up with any BS and not likely to start. The less that did the less of this kind of crap we'd have to put up with. People will get away with what they can.
As I've said from the start, it's a matter of last resort but if they aren't willing to take care of it then I would simply stop paying for it until they did. If they financed it, it's the same deal and any judge is likely to see it that way too. If they start dinging your credit in a case like this then you have cause for further action including asking for punitive damages. Simply ask yourself, Dave if the buyer doesn't make the payments, as he normally should, is Mahindra allowed to repossess the machine? If so then it's the same deal, period. No matter how many pieces of paper there are, they are inextricably linked and part of the same deal. There is nothing complicated or involved about this, ALL CONTRACTS ARE TWO WAY STREETS. Not saying you'd ever be this way, because I don't think you would. Not all dealers are as good as you are but every barrel has it's share of bad apples that need sorting out. I'm pretty sure that if Mahindra saw a lot of this sort of thing coming from the same dealership, they'd likely get rid of them as well they should.

You asked, if the buyer did not make payments, is Mahindra allowed to repossess the machine? If by Mahindra you mean MUSA, then the answer is clearly "no". MUSA's only obligation at that point is to the warranty contract. And that contract is pretty well defined.

Let me step you through the money flow so you can see why MUSA can't repossess the tractor. The dealer bought it from MUSA when it was initially invoiced to the dealer. That invoice was paid off either by the dealer or by the dealer's floor plan company. When it was retailed, MFUSA paid the dealer for the tractor on behalf of the retail customer as their part of the contract with the end user. That end user is obligated to pay for the tractor, even if it is broken. No doubt MFUSA has some obligations, but one of them is not fixing the tractor - even if it is a legit issue. They have no mechanics. They own no parts, they own no tools. They sell money. You keep mixing these companies and contracts like it is all one contract. If a tractor is repossessed, it is done so by MFUSA, not MUSA.

You have two contracts with two different companies in this hypothetical example. Your pragmatic approach is to mix them together and call it all a big shell game. That's not the case. I've sat in dealer council meetings with the head of MUSA and the head of MFUSA and let me tell you, each has a company to run and are expected to make a profit. They are mutually beneficial to one another, they both gain off the other's success. Obviously they are related companies.

I think we can agree on a couple of points and then maybe we can let this rest until we hear what was wrong with the tractor. One is that MUSA needs to honor warranty claims, and surely they do and they will. The other is that any creative "raising a stink" should be as a last resort. Stopping payments, erecting billboards, throwing a stink on forums....life is too short.

 

[dickfoster]

You asked, if the buyer did not make payments, is Mahindra allowed to repossess the machine? If by Mahindra you mean MUSA, then the answer is clearly "no". MUSA's only obligation at that point is to the warranty contract. And that contract is pretty well defined.

Let me step you through the money flow so you can see why MUSA can't repossess the tractor. The dealer bought it from MUSA when it was initially invoiced to the dealer. That invoice was paid off either by the dealer or by the dealer's floor plan company. When it was retailed, MFUSA paid the dealer for the tractor on behalf of the retail customer as their part of the contract with the end user. That end user is obligated to pay for the tractor, even if it is broken. No doubt MFUSA has some obligations, but one of them is not fixing the tractor - even if it is a legit issue. They have no mechanics. They own no parts, they own no tools. They sell money. You keep mixing these companies and contracts like it is all one contract. If a tractor is repossessed, it is done so by MFUSA, not MUSA.

You have two contracts with two different companies in this hypothetical example. Your pragmatic approach is to mix them together and call it all a big shell game. That's not the case. I've sat in dealer council meetings with the head of MUSA and the head of MFUSA and let me tell you, each has a company to run and are expected to make a profit. They are mutually beneficial to one another, they both gain off the other's success. Obviously they are related companies.

I think we can agree on a couple of points and then maybe we can let this rest until we hear what was wrong with the tractor. One is that MUSA needs to honor warranty claims, and surely they do and they will. The other is that any creative "raising a stink" should be as a last resort. Stopping payments, erecting billboards, throwing a stink on forums....life is too short.

Like I said up front, it is always a last resort. That said I don't see sitting still and saying it's just so much tough luck for non performace on the part of a dealer or Mahindra. The better everyone does their part, the better it is for everyone concerned. Service sells, it's important that everyone takes that simple fact to heart.

 

[Cramby]

Just watching this thread to see how the dealer handles this problem. My experience so far with Mahindra has been outstanding.

 

[jmh1783]

There are an awful lot of tier 4 related issues in this section at the moment. Maybe Mahindra doesn't have the best solution after all. Makes me wonder if I should be buying one or not. They just upped their warranty to 7 years probably to counter the bad press. I guess we'll see.

 

[ozley]

There are an awful lot of tier 4 related issues in this section at the moment. Maybe Mahindra doesn't have the best solution after all. Makes me wonder if I should be buying one or not. They just upped their warranty to 7 years probably to counter the bad press. I guess we'll see.

Bad press if you mean here remember most people that come here are here to find help with a problem. There are plenty Mahindra tractor out there working too. The others that come here are trying help or mess I mean talk with friends.

 

[SedonaDave]

They just upped their warranty to 7 years probably to counter the bad press. I guess we'll see.

First off I was on there site, did not see anything like that?...have a link?
The 5 year is on power train, and not the engine or emissions...

 

[DavesTractor]

First off I was on there site, did not see anything like that?...have a link?
The 5 year is on power train, and not the engine or emissions...

In California, the 5 year is on emissions also I believe, because the CARB requires it. Not sure if that is federal. The 7 year warranty started on tractors retailed July 1st and later. But if you have a quote from June, it will go up a few hundred $$ due to the price increase passed on to dealers to cover the cost of years 6 and 7 of the powertrain warranty. That price increase to the dealer is mandatory even on existing and/or owned inventory. They do that so they can have a clear date to know what tractors are 5 year and what tractors are 7 year. When they went from 3 year to 5 year they did the same thing. It works, and I can't think of a better solution.

As far as problems, I think all brands are struggling some with the Tier IV changeover. If one is old enough, he can remember when cars went from simple carbs to complex carbs with a mile of vacuum lines, to simple fuel injection with o2 sensors for ecm feedback and then onto the advanced stuff we have today. That changeover was a little painful.

MUSA does not use a DPF, and that eliminates an entire set of potential problems, but to make the tractors burn clean enough to skip the DPF, they had to go common rail and computer controlled and it added some complexity in that regard. Dealers need to get savvy on the computer aspect of it, just like the car guys did. Fortunately, a lot of the techs are younger and computers to them are way simpler than an old 2-barrel Rochester.

 

[Navasot]

First off I was on there site, did not see anything like that?...have a link?
The 5 year is on power train, and not the engine or emissions...

I just replaced an engine under the powertrain warranty... it has to be soaked and internal to usually be considered powertrain