Manual vs Hydrostatic Trans. for hilly terrain

dogitz · Mar 30, 2006

I have rolling hills on my place and feel safe/confident on my geared tractor. I do make sure I'm in the proper gear before starting down a hill. I'd rather be in a lower gear than normal and increase the throttle if I need a little more speed than to be in a higher gear and try to downshift on the hill. 

BamaRob and others, what about stopping completely on a slope to operate a backhoe? My understanding is that putting HST in neutral locks wheels, and presumably allows the operator to flip around to work the hoe. How is this accomplished with a manual gear (particularly GST)?

I have followed the "GST vs HST on hills" as well as the "GL3830 vs L39" but I am still unsure whether the GST (clutchless gear) is able to remain *parked* on a hill while operating the backhoe.

Last night I posted this question to my dealer. I look forward to getting some seat time to see myself, but the dealer would have to consent to a demo on my property.

BamaRob · Mar 30, 2006

I don't have a backhoe, but if I want to remain stationary on a hill, I put the transmission and range selector in neutral, roll my bucket forward slightly so the cutting edge will bite, and lower my FEL until it is solidly on the ground (usually to the point where it just begins to lift the front tires ever so slightly). Then, I'd lock the brake pedals together and engage the parking brake. This way, if the brakes fail or accidently get bumped out of park, the bucket should keep me from moving. Or, if the hydraulics fail or if the hydraulic control lever on the FEL gets bumped, the brakes should keep me from moving. If that doesn't keep it from moving, the hill is too steep for me to be working on! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

I have no idea on the specific models you mention (GL3830 vs L39) as I have no experience with either.

Later,

BR

N80 · Mar 30, 2006

I've got extremely hilly terrain and I have a geared tractor. I personally feel like i have more control with a geared tractor, but that may be due to a significant lack of experience with HST. In any case, I'm very proficient with the clutch and gear system. I like being able to select exactly what gear I need (before going up or down). Engine compression and a low gear make for excellent control descending even the steepest and most uneven slopes. The key is making that selection before hand and not changing gears mid slope. However, with 4wd my brakes are quite good and I can stop going up or down hill, select another gear and re-start in a controlled fashion.

This isn't an argument against HST its just that I do not see any safety issues at all with a geared tractor. You simply have to think a little more about what you are doing and you have to know how to work the equipment properly and profieicently.

KentT · Mar 30, 2006

One thing that doesn't "jump out" to me in these replies is that with a hydro you can always slow down to go down a hill while still maintaining the engine speed, PTO speed or hydro pump output that's necessary to operate whatever attachment you're using at the time...

To slow down with a gear tractor, mid-slope, requires you slow the engine/pump/PTO speed which may impact the operation of your attachment. If you had the foresight to gear down at the top of the slope, that may/may not be necessary. However, once you've committed to going down the slope, slowing the engine speed is your only recourse... it's too late to safely clutch the tractor and shift to a lower gear.

I have a really steep slope behind my barn that I mow going straight up and down -- 30 degrees or so -- and I've slid the rear wheels braking with the hydro while going downhill with the engine running at full mowing speed....

daTeacha · Mar 30, 2006

Try mowing down a hill on a Cadet 109 hydro with the rears spinning backward and continuing to accelerate! It's kind of hard on the lawn, but the hill is short with lots of runout space at the bottom.

Soundguy · Mar 30, 2006

Sounds like it was kinda hard on the shorts as well!!

Soundguy

( Try mowing down a hill on a Cadet 109 hydro with the rears spinning backward and continuing to accelerate! It's kind of hard on the lawn )

john_bud · Mar 30, 2006

Teach,

No thanks. But if that's how you normally mow, I'll be by with the folding chair and cooler to watch the show! Must be REAL exciting!!

jb

KiotiJohn · Mar 30, 2006

I should clarify that I was speaking of someone with no experience on a tractor might hit the clutch and brake in a disaster. That would almost certainly lead to further disaster. Thanks Soundguy for putting in what I left out.
John

Henro · Mar 30, 2006

I don't have a backhoe, but if I want to remain stationary on a hill, I put the transmission and range selector in neutral, roll my bucket forward slightly so the cutting edge will bite, and lower my FEL until it is solidly on the ground 

Not the way I do it. I NEVER take my hydro out of gear when on a hill. I just let the directional pedal center, lock the brakes, put the front bucket on the ground, and use the backhoe. Actually, I never put the selector in neutral, when stopped, even on the level. I do set the brakes all the time.

I feel the hydro offers added hold back, in addition to the parking brake. I suppose that with a gear tractor, when stopped one must put the transmission in neutral, so the only thing holding the tractor in place is the brakes, plus the other things like the front bucket stuck in the ground, and the backhoe stabilizers if a backhoe is on the tractor.

Going from forward to reverse on a hill is another issue. With the hydro, the connection between the engine and the drivetrain is not broken when the directional change takes place.

Man...I wish I had a gear tractor...in the shed along with my hrdro tractors, of couse... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

daTeacha · Mar 30, 2006

That was about a 12 x 24 section of the old place, kind of trapezoidal with the narrow part at the top. I would run up it while working the hydro lever back, then turn around on the flat at the top and slowly start down with my hand on the hydro lever (no pedal, strictly hand control) gradually pulling back 'til it was locked up but sliding and accelerating, then pull the hydro lever to reverse for the last couple of feet. By then it's flattening out enough to roll out onto a nicer piece of ground and continue forwards. It really wasn't as bad as it sounds.

I can confirm that even with the hydro in neutral and the brake locked, a tractor that was stationary can slide down hill and bang it's nose against a tree pretty hard when you aren't watching it. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif Remember, this is a Cadet 109, basically a lawn/garden tractor, with old hard turf tires on it. I plowed snow with it in about the same way on the adjacent section of driveway, except I had chains mounted.

Anyways, now maybe you guys can see why I had so many posts about braking on hills with the loader bucket full and things of that type a while back. My current place is essentially next to the one described above and has about the same terrain except for that one steepish part in front of the old shop.