Masonry drilling

[JRobyn]

Hi guys,

I'm mounting square steel posts on the corners of my front steps for some handrails. The stair tread "cap" is bluestone, with brick underneath. I have no idea how solid the area inside the perimeter brick is. Maybe just rubble. I plan to use regular "red-head" anchors, probably 2-1/2" or 3" long. I have little experience with bluestone and don't know how crack-prone it may be.

The questions; do you think that I can drill these with regular 2-flute carbide percussion masonry bits, or do I need to get spendy and use diamond saws?

Should I plan to to pre-fill the holes with some sort of grout just before I insert the anchors?

 

[RNeumann]

Simpson 2 part epoxy. My fear is an expanding style anchor will split the rock.

 

[ovrszd]

I agree. I give the drilling method less than 50% chance of not splitting the rock.

 

[mbohuntr]

I agree. I give the drilling method less than 50% chance of not splitting the rock.

We used diamond core drills and epoxy on commercial railings in concrete and heavy stone.

 

[ovrszd]

We used diamond core drills and epoxy on commercial railings in concrete and heavy stone.

I had to revisit the picture. Didn't see any heavy stone or concrete.

Give it a try.

 

[Ken]

Back before the modern methods of getting a tight solid and permanent either a lathe or stair . drill a hole and put in a threaded bolt . Then heat Sulfur until liquid and pour into the hole. when filled to top allow it to cool then tighten the nut on the bolts.
My drill stand has been this way for over 20 years and when put in a concrete floor to build on some one forgot to place the base bolts to hold the walls bought sulfur from farm store and drilled the holes and filled .still solid.
ken

 

[Budweiser John]

I would use a good quality masonry drill in a rotational mode only until you drill through the stone cap. Hopefully you will fins a solid substrate and then continue drilling to the desired depth using the hammer mode.
To insure against breaking the stone with a ‘Hilti’ style anchor i’de opt for setting studs.
in two part epoxy.
From your posted picture, it appears the bluestone is ptobably not all that hard
Good luck
B. John

 

[newbury]

<snip> Then heat Sulfur until liquid and pour into the hole. when filled to top allow it to cool then tighten the nut on the bolts.<snip>
ken

Ah, Fire and Brimstone!!

 

[Langanobob]

I like it.

Back before the modern methods of getting a tight solid and permanent either a lathe or stair . drill a hole and put in a threaded bolt . Then heat Sulfur until liquid and pour into the hole. when filled to top allow it to cool then tighten the nut on the bolts.
My drill stand has been this way for over 20 years and when put in a concrete floor to build on some one forgot to place the base bolts to hold the walls bought sulfur from farm store and drilled the holes and filled .still solid.
ken

 

[Tractor Seabee]

Back before the modern methods of getting a tight solid and permanent either a lathe or stair . drill a hole and put in a threaded bolt . Then heat Sulfur until liquid and pour into the hole. when filled to top allow it to cool then tighten the nut on the bolts.
My drill stand has been this way for over 20 years and when put in a concrete floor to build on some one forgot to place the base bolts to hold the walls bought sulfur from farm store and drilled the holes and filled .still solid.
ken

Its amazing that a lot of the old time methods have not been improved on that much with our new gimmicks. Used that method back in the 50s for setting machinery on concrete bases. Did the holes with a star drill and hammer, no masonry drills back then either. We also used molten lead around a carraige bolt set in the hole head down, then tamp the lead with a punch after it cools. Sulfur was better. Our best pipe thread compound back then was a mixture of "litharge of lead" and glycerin. It was explosion proof. All that good poision stuff is now gone.

Ron

 

[mbohuntr]

I had to revisit the picture. Didn't see any heavy stone or concrete.

Give it a try.

Thanks for pointing that out, I guess I didn't explain my train of thought at all.. A core drill doesn't have any shock or vibration to split the stone, or break the mortar bond between the stone/brick, brick/brick, nor does it care if you are drilling on an edge of brick. It won't slip off the edge.

 

[Egon]

I kinda think removing the bottom step and replacing with bluestone topped new concrete might be a more permanent solution.

 

[Ken]

Its amazing that a lot of the old time methods have not been improved on that much with our new gimmicks. Used that method back in the 50s for setting machinery on concrete bases. Did the holes with a star drill and hammer, no masonry drills back then either. We also used molten lead around a carraige bolt set in the hole head down, then tamp the lead with a punch after it cools. Sulfur was better. Our best pipe thread compound back then was a mixture of "litharge of lead" and glycerin. It was explosion proof. All that good poision stuff is now gone.

Ron

litharge of lead mixed most anything chemical could cause formaldehydes the formation was from the melting of silver ore and the flotsam on surface then mixed . May have the downfall of the Romans.

I know with out a doubt will Cause cancer in California.


And Egon always so practical to think of replacing the lower step then adding the bluestone for solid rail,

ken

 

[ovrszd]

Thanks for pointing that out, I guess I didn't explain my train of thought at all.. A core drill doesn't have any shock or vibration to split the stone, or break the mortar bond between the stone/brick, brick/brick, nor does it care if you are drilling on an edge of brick. It won't slip off the edge.

I stopped in here to expand my knowledge about this subject. And it's working. What's a core drill???

 

[John Fitzgerald]

<snip>
I know with out a doubt will Cause cancer in California.
ken

We know anything and everything causes cancer in California.

 

[JRobyn]

I stopped in here to expand my knowledge about this subject. And it's working. What's a core drill???

Bastex Diamond Drill Bit, 1 Piece Bits - Glass, Tile, Marble and Ceramic Hollow Core Extractor Remover Tool Set - - Amazon.com

 

[JRobyn]

OK, so y'all have me leaning toward diamond core bits. This is outdoors, so keeping it wet is not a problem.

And I'll go along with epoxy set. Is this available at Lowes? Is there any need to use an actual anchor bolt, or just pieces of all-thread?

 

[mbohuntr]

OK, so y'all have me leaning toward diamond core bits. This is outdoors, so keeping it wet is not a problem.

And I'll go along with epoxy set. Is this available at Lowes? Is there any need to use an actual anchor bolt, or just pieces of all-thread?

What we used was Tigergrout.
Epoxy Anchoring Grout - TIGERGROUT™ HD - Garon Products Inc.

I don't think it is available at Lowes, but you might get a small bit from an ornamental railing company cheap.. We simply made the rails long and placed the ends in the holes in the concrete and poured the grout in. The stuff was super strong. I did some locally 20 years ago, and they're still like new, even with our winters. puddle the grout higher than the surface so the water doesn't pond and rust the post.

Run the core drill very slowly, and use lots of water so it doesn't get hot.

 

[Tractor Seabee]

What we used was Tigergrout.
Epoxy Anchoring Grout - TIGERGROUT HD - Garon Products Inc.

I don't think it is available at Lowes, but you might get a small bit from an ornamental railing company cheap.. We simply made the rails long and placed the ends in the holes in the concrete and poured the grout in. The stuff was super strong. I did some locally 20 years ago, and they're still like new, even with our winters. puddle the grout higher than the surface so the water doesn't pond and rust the post.

Run the core drill very slowly, and use lots of water so it doesn't get hot.

Lowes has it in the section with all the metal framing products plus elsewhere . Several brands. The make anchors specifically for epoxy setting. Depending on loading and/or location you could use all thread or rebar but it rusts outdoors; the anchors are plated, galv, or SS. Lowes has it all.

Ron