Loader Massey Loader - No dual Function??

[finn1]

The open center like my Kioti has is inferior to the closed systems my John Deere excavator has and old Deere skid steer had. The open center is much harder to control, and makes it difficult to finesse the loaders motion.

I would look for a better system if I ever replace the Kioti.

Maybe it’s a good reason to get a CTL?

 

[rScotty]

The open center like my Kioti has is inferior to the closed systems my John Deere excavator has and old Deere skid steer had. The open center is much harder to control, and makes it difficult to finesse the loaders motion.

I would look for a better system if I ever replace the Kioti.

Maybe it’s a good reason to get a CTL?

I don't know of any other CUT or medium sized tractor using a closed hydraulic system except some of the John Deeres. If you ever replace the Kioti you might think about staying with an open hydraulic system but go to a different manufacturer using a different open design.

There's no reason an open hydraulic system can't be almost equally controllable as a closed circuit type. The problem is that by the time a manufacturer does that using expensive super-precision control valves, low-resistance fittings, and a high dollar pump....well, he's spending enough money in manufacturing that he might as well have gone to a closed hydraulic system in the first place. The only advantage remaining is that the open system is still more simple.

The open system on our Kubota M59 TLB is noticibly superior to the closed system on my big John Deere 310 TLB, so it can be done. BTW, it sure disappointed me when I realized that Kubota had a better hydraulic system than our JD. I'm one of those guys who had always expected JD to be the best..... But I guess it's not always that way anymore.

As far as I'm concerned there's lots of good reasons to get a CTL (Compact Track Loader), but you still need a good tractor to do every day chores.
rScotty

 

[hamdog]

I was out playing with loaded again the other day digging out the side of a hill for a shooting pit, and no simultaneous functions on the loader.

How do I troubleshoot the loader valve to verify it’s the culprit? Thanks everyone for all help!

 

[rScotty]

I was out playing with loaded again the other day digging out the side of a hill for a shooting pit, and no simultaneous functions on the loader.

How do I troubleshoot the loader valve to verify it’s the culprit? Thanks everyone for all help!

Your question really comes down to whether it is simply a defective valve, or whether you are not getting enough flow to simultaneously run two circuits. And the problem with troubleshooting is that flow under pressure is hard to measure.

That's a tough question. I don't know of any easy way to troubleshoot a valve. Frankly small dealerships and backyard mechanics troubleshoot a valve mostly by guesswork, replacement, and by putting a pressure gauge into suspect lines. The problem with hydraulic diagnosis is that what you really want to measure is flow rate, but that is expensive and hard to do. So you end up measuring pressure even though pressure doesn't always mean flow. You can make up a decent pressure gauge with fittings for about $100. Which you can then put in various places in the hydraulic line and see if you are getting pressure when you work the loader valve levers. Pressure doesn't always mean flow, but at least you can tell if flow is even possible. And if you leave a couple of pressure gauges mounted near the loader valve while you work the loader you will begin to develope a sense of what must be happening in the loader circuit. At least that is how I do it and it works for me.

Larger dealerships and real hydraulic shops have a tool called a flowmeter that measures flow in gallons per minute & tells pressure as well. Not all do, because that is an expensive tool & costs in the $500 to $3000 range. But it will diagnose a hydraulic problem in an instant with no guesswork. Maybe you can find one on Ebay.

Or maybe someone will come up with a simple test for the valve that hasn't occurred to me. That would be awesome.
luck,
rScotty
rScotty

 

[finn1]

I was out playing with loaded again the other day digging out the side of a hill for a shooting pit, and no simultaneous functions on the loader.

How do I troubleshoot the loader valve to verify it’s the culprit? Thanks everyone for all help!

Most likely, it’s working the way it was designed. My old Deere skid steer had much smoother and faster bucket control, and thus was much more productive than my new tractor.

I recently bought a Deere mini excavator which has pilot control hydraulics, and it is a further improvement in speed and controllability.

I wouldn’t recommend a CUT for loader or fork work if a skid steer could be slipped into the budget.

 

[rScotty]

Most likely, it’s working the way it was designed. My old Deere skid steer had much smoother and faster bucket control, and thus was much more productive than my new tractor.

I recently bought a Deere mini excavator which has pilot control hydraulics, and it is a further improvement in speed and controllability.

I wouldn’t recommend a CUT for loader or fork work if a skid steer could be slipped into the budget.

I've used a variety of both closed and open circuit tractors. If the hydraulic pump is large enough on the open circuit tractor then the loaders work about the same and I personally never could tell by the way they worked whether it had an open or closed hydraulic circuit. Both can work all the loader functions simultaneously.

On tractors 40 years ago it was typical for the tractor's own internal hydraulic pump to not be large enough and so the loader would only do one movement at a time. I haven't seen that problem in about 20 years, but sure saw it a lot years ago. The typical fix if the hydraulic pump on the original tractor is not large enough to work both functions is to just use the tractor's hydraulic pump to run the tractor and 3pt functions and add an auxillary hydraulic pump (and reservior) to run the loader. This used to be commonly done, and you can still buy a number of such pumps that either run off the PTO or on an in-line extension of the nose of the crankshaft.

But I'm not sure that applies to the OP's Massey. The 1660 is a big machine with a decent size hydraulic pump. First thing I would do is test it to see if the pump is putting out the full gallons/minute. And before doing that, I'd change all the hydraulic filters. And especially check to see if the 1660 has a cleanable crud filter. Most hydraulic problems seem to start with the hydraulic filters.

On skidsteer vs tractor, that's an old debate. To my mind it's all about how you like to work and how the ground you work is laid out. On a smaller, smoother place I could see a skidsteer being very usable in tight places. Especially in corrals and inside a barn. But on our land with neither of those, but lots of hills, gullys, rocks, and a long way to travel it is the TLB configuration that works better. One thing that really benefits any loader when carrying heavy loads on rough terrain is some form of ride control. Our JD has it and the Kubota doesn't. Big difference, there. I don't know whether skid steers have active ride control for the loader bucket, but guessing they probably do.
rScotty

 

[oldnslo]

Ability to dual or multi function depends on several variables some of them are:
Valve design: some valve meter much better than others allowing much better slow speed movement
Parallel or series design: Kubota had a FEL valve on some models that was series parallel style valve. This style valve directs the return oils from the lift function to the bucket functions allowing very good dual function operation.
Operator: how precise is the operator in carefully controlled valve movement of both functions? You can’t dual function if all the flow is being used by a single function unless you have the series valve.

I am not sure which valve manufacturers offer the series valve option