MAX 24 Electrical Issues

[mikesdad]

Hello all and thank you in advance for any assistance.
I have a Mahindra Max 24 HST that will turn 2 years old next month.
About a month ago, I noticed that when I turned the key to start, the glow plug light indicator on the dash lit up but I did not hear the normal 'clicking' noise of the glow plug. The tractor started ok once the glow plug indicator light went out. A couple weeks later, the problem seemed to fix itself as the clicking of the glow plug started again when the key was turned to the on position. The only thing that I had done in the mean time was clean the battery terminals. The positive terminal on the battery was HORRENDOUS with corrosion!
When I went to start the tractor on Saturday (three days ago) the glow plug indicator DID NOT light up on the dash board and there was no clicking from the glow plug and I'm pretty sure that I can no longer hear the glow plug relay kick in.
The tractor did start after some time and I used it for about an hour and noticed that the fuel gauge seemed sluggish and only shows 1/2 tank when I know the tank is about full and in addition to that, I noticed that the temperature gauge was no longer working. Also, just for the heck of it I checked the headlights.......they work...and the 4 ways....they work....but the turn signals do NOT work.
I put the tractor in the garage and proceeded to pull the dashboard off and found a ginormous mouse nest on top of the fuel tank. It was setting on like three of the connections for the dash board.
Removed the nest, blew out the connections, tightened all the screws on the dash board, applied a touch of di-electric grease to the connections and snapped them back together and since I had the battery disconnected while I removed the dash, recleaned the battery posts and removed the bolt that connected the negative terminal to the frame and sanded the frame just to be sure I had a good ground. Also added the felt battery protectors under the battery connections to help prevent any further corrosion. I checked all the 10 and the one 15 amp fuses in the fuse block and they are ok. I checked the two 50 amp fuses, one up front by the battery ( that had previously blown from the wires being too short on the seat safety switch and then pulling apart and shorting out and then the tractor would not start) and the other 50 amp that I found wrapped in electrical tape by the starter.
And the issue persists.
I see no visibly 'chewed' wires.
I crawled under the tractor to see if something had come apart as per wires or connections and see nothing amiss.
My next step in a few minutes here is going to be to remove the loader so that I can really get in and check everything again before I pay the dealer big bucks to come and get the tractor and then bigger bucks to trouble shoot and repair it.
The glow plug is turned on by the ignition switch but the turn signals are on the other switch so I am thinking that would rule out a bad ignition switch.
Wondering if the giant mouse nest (Yes, my mistake for leaving it set outside even if it was covered) has shorted out the dash board and or the ignition/turn signal switch.
If feels like a broken power feed wire to me.
Stuff worked fine... then some stuff stopped working.... then it all worked fine again... then a bunch of stuff stopped working.
Thoughts PLEASE??

 

[RNeumann]

My very wise vehicle electrical guru always said to start with grounds if their is random issues. Having said that the Mahindras are know to have poor battery cables that will corrode and fail internally. I would start with two new cables (cheap easy fix and somewhat prophylactic anyway) and see what you get.
A careful inspection and movement or all wiring with the machine running to see if you find something else lose or chewed on is also a starting point.

 

[jaxs]

Sound's like you are on the right track,just stay on it. Do you own and know how to use a volt-ohm meter? It take's much longer to troubleshoot without one. Back to the fuses,did they just "look good" or did you check each for continuity?
It's easy to overlook bad fuses when visually inspecting,test light or meter is only way of knowing for sure. Even replaceing a fuse can be confusing if new fuse also blow's. If you can read simple schematics/wireing diagrams,get one and look for a circuit shared by items not working. If you can't find a diagram for your tractor,hopefully someone that has one will chime in about shared circuit.

 

[mikesdad]

Thank you both for the input.
Thats a good point jaxs.
Yes the fuses did 'look' good but I did not check them with my VOM because I could not find it last night.
It's here somewhere!!!
I took the loader off of the tractor to be able to get a little more personal with it and pulled it into the garage.
I was reading a thread on here before I joined about checking electrical connections ( I don't know what the technical term is? ) for water.
I started following the wires from the battery looking for wear spots on the frame as RNeumann was talking about, (great minds run in the same direction!) and then I started unplugging connections.
I was thinking, ya right, water!
Wow.
Not sure if this will be the cure to all my whoas but from where it came from and to where it was headed too? (The wires in and out)
It sure fits the symptoms.
Seriously? That much water????
Fingers crossed.
I had a heck of a time getting that 'fitting' apart and was about to give up when I thought......it probably isn't coming apart for a reason.

 

[Gaowlpoop]

Speaking of fuses, I have a story about that/ them.

My across the field neighbor has a Case tractor. He had it down south of us about 30 miles doing some clearing for hunting season and it just quit on him. He made several trips down to work on it and talked with several people about the problem - all to no avail.

Finally he ask me if I would go with him and give it a try. I told him sure and long story longer we wound up in the woods looking at a Case tractor. I poked around at it some and couldn't find anything wrong. I ask if he had checked the fuses and he assured me that he had checked them twice. I told him I could hot wire it and get it up on the trailer so we could get it home. Against long story but we got it home.

After we got it in his shop I ask if he was sure about the fuses, assuring him that I was not trying to make him mad. He said yes, I am sure, and just to prove it he would check them again. He grabbed his voltmeter and started "checking" the fuses. Now, theses were the blade type that you can get to the contacts from the back. He checked 3 or 4 before I could stop him and tell him he wasn't checking anything except continuity to ground. I explained to him that on most newer vehihicles when you turn off the ignition you ground the entire electrical system. Furthermore, in that state, all the fuses would check good. You have to pull the fuses to check them. We started pulling fuses and the second one we pulled was bad. We replaced it and the tractor came back to life.

I hope this rather long explanation can help.

 

[TemporaryKubotaOwnerMark]

Yeah, that'll cause a few problems! I'd be generous with the CRC Contact Cleaner to clean them up, then I'd be generous with some silicone dielectric grease to keep the water out.

Mr. Neumann gave good advice on the grounds, and on taking things apart and testing them. A visual inspection just isn't good enough.

If you need to replace those battery cables, you can get some nice ones made at BestBoatWire.com. Marine tinned cables, fitted with your choice of connectors. Pick your gauge, choose your length, specify your ends, make 'em like you want them. I like to add the clear heat-shrink to the ends so that I can keep an eye on things in there. Add some military style battery terminals, and you've got a setup that will give you many years of reliable service.

 

[mikesdad]

CRC'd the plug in my pictures and sanded and filed and applied a coating of DI-electric grease.
Saw a electrical fitting behind the coolant tank that was in the vertical position and removed the tank and had a look at it. (in case of water)
Checked all the fuses with my VOM and they were good to go.
Reconnected the battery and ...
No Joy.
The issue persists.
What does the relay in the pic control ?
Ready to send it to the shop.
170 hours
To bad to have these issues.

 

[jaxs]

"What does the relay in the pic control ?"
I haven't owned one of these tractors but a shop manual should tell you. Can you not tell which terminal is power in,which is power(s) out and which are signal circuit? Knowing that,you could see if 12v is reaching relay,if power is leaving relay and if signal is reaching relay coil. You might be able to hear relay open/close so I would remove one then listen to see if relay operate's at key on,lights on,hazards on ect. I have to say the fuel guage is the joker in the deck, so ground seem's to play a part in this. Since warning lights and other dash functions are acting up,how about a temporary ground jumper (booster cable) from battery post to dash assembly to see if dash isn't makeing good contact with remainder of tractor or if frame to dash ground strap is bad? If you plan to troubleshoot in the future,I highly recommend buying a shop manual. Dealer techs could never do their job without manuals,don't you think diy owners need one also?

 

[K5lwq]

CRC'd the plug in my pictures and sanded and filed and applied a coating of DI-electric grease.
Saw a electrical fitting behind the coolant tank that was in the vertical position and removed the tank and had a look at it. (in case of water)
Checked all the fuses with my VOM and they were good to go.
Reconnected the battery and ...
No Joy.
The issue persists.
What does the relay in the pic control ?
Ready to send it to the shop.
170 hours
To bad to have these issues.
View attachment 522961

I don't own a tractor like yours but I would bet that is your glow plug relay(controller).

 

[mikesdad]

Alrighty then.
Will get shop manual.

 

[Spanner]

Glow Controller - Glow Plugs | NGK SPARK PLUG CO., LTD.

 

[mikesdad]

"What does the relay in the pic control ?"
I haven't owned one of these tractors but a shop manual should tell you. Can you not tell which terminal is power in,which is power(s) out and which are signal circuit? Knowing that,you could see if 12v is reaching relay,if power is leaving relay and if signal is reaching relay coil. You might be able to hear relay open/close so I would remove one then listen to see if relay operate's at key on,lights on,hazards on ect. I have to say the fuel guage is the joker in the deck, so ground seem's to play a part in this. Since warning lights and other dash functions are acting up,how about a temporary ground jumper (booster cable) from battery post to dash assembly to see if dash isn't makeing good contact with remainder of tractor or if frame to dash ground strap is bad? If you plan to troubleshoot in the future,I highly recommend buying a shop manual. Dealer techs could never do their job without manuals,don't you think diy owners need one also?

Wouldn't the world be a better place if we all went out and sunk a hundred bucks on a shop manual at the first sign of trouble rather than say...I dunno?...crazy thought here?....asking for opinions and bothering others on these silly forums.
My Shop manual is on the way.
Tracked some power issues, or lack thereof, down tonight but.....?
Hey, go buy a shop manual and figure it out yourselves.

 

[K5lwq]

Well life is not that simple. I have been around this type of equipment all my life. Was raised on a 15,000 acre farm with all sorts of tractors and implements and just from reading this forum the other day I finely learned how to use a grease gun properly. Guarantee you that want be in the manual. People are still the best source for information. :thumbsup:

 

[dickfoster]

Wouldn't the world be a better place if we all went out and sunk a hundred bucks on a shop manual at the first sign of trouble rather than say...I dunno?...crazy thought here?....asking for opinions and bothering others on these silly forums.
My Shop manual is on the way.
Tracked some power issues, or lack thereof, down tonight but.....?
Hey, go buy a shop manual and figure it out yourselves.

Normally I'd agree with you but in the case of Mahindra manuals, not so much. They are junk and are hardly worth what they charge for them.

 

[mikesdad]

Wasn't mice nor manuals.
Just poor workmanship.
Speaker sized wire running thru the frame that broke at a crimp.
Are you kidding me?
Would never recommend Mahindra.
Wires in the harness were at 'passenger' side down low where it goes through the frame

 

[jaxs]

Wouldn't the world be a better place if we all went out and sunk a hundred bucks on a shop manual at the first sign of trouble rather than say...I dunno?...crazy thought here?....asking for opinions and bothering others on these silly forums.
My Shop manual is on the way.
Tracked some power issues, or lack thereof, down tonight but.....?
Hey, go buy a shop manual and figure it out yourselves.

Wasn't mice nor manuals.
Just poor workmanship.
Speaker sized wire running thru the frame that broke at a crimp.
Are you kidding me?
Would never recommend Mahindra.
Wires in the harness were at 'passenger' side down low where it goes through the frame

View attachment 523417

I am happy to hear you got it fixed. Now let's talk about your ungratefulness toward people trying to help you. I was the one who suggested a shop manual and I stand by the suggestion "exactly"the way I framed the suggestion. I have a manual for every tractor I own and they weren't bought "at the first sign of trouble",they were bought knowing they would serve me as long as I own the tractor. None of them cost "a hundred bucks",more like $20. Do you believe one of us should have been able to tell you that single wire was broke? The smartest technician on face of earth couldn't know that wire was broke. The "ONLY"logical way of troubleshooting electrical is with schematics and a multimeter. If a person is unwilling to buy both they shouldn't expect people online to help troubleshoot their electrical problems,,,,,,PERIOD. If anyone think's I'm wrong,why didn't you tell him which wire was broke? Now you can tell me I'm wrong and that you can not only ferret out your electrical grimlins without schematics and multimeter,you can do it online. Mikesdad,I hope you don't disappear now that you fixed the problem, hang around to share your knowledge.

 

[mikesdad]

Well life is not that simple. I have been around this type of equipment all my life. Was raised on a 15,000 acre farm with all sorts of tractors and implements and just from reading this forum the other day I finely learned how to use a grease gun properly. Guarantee you that want be in the manual. People are still the best source for information. :thumbsup:

I could not agree with you more sir.

 

[mikesdad]

Normally I'd agree with you but in the case of Mahindra manuals, not so much. They are junk and are hardly worth what they charge for them.

Boy oh boy, isn't that the truth? I have purchased many a Chiltons manuals for trucks that I have owned over the years and gone into Tractor Supply Stores and bought whatever brand of 'Chilton type' manuals that they sell for the John Deere's and old time Massy's that I have owned in the past for you know, the $20 bucks or so, but this Mahindra?
Forget about it.
The dealer wanted around $100 to order it for me and I found it online at one place, Bills Tractor and Equipment ( SERVICE/REPAIR MANUAL FOR MAX 24 HST T4 MAHINDRA TRACTOR ) for $72.00.
Unfortunately, I have yet to receive the manual from Bills.
Fortunately though, I found this thread on this site....

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/mahindra-owning-operating/315055-mahindra-max-28-electrical.html

Member drajj5 had a total loss of power as opposed to my partial loss of power but still same/same.
Both symptoms pointed to broken wires.
He also had a different model of Mahindra but the wiring diagram of his tractor that he posted was close enough for me to start understanding how the engineers at Mahindra like to tap into power supplies at many different points.
Just for an example: I have one switch that controls my headlights, turn signals and hazard flashers.
Headlights work, hazard flashers work but not the turn signals??
How can this be???

Ya well, welcome to cost cutting Tier 4 technology that ain't the ole Farmall setting out back.
Many very thin wires tap into a power source where ever they can.
And in my opinion? That is why the schematics are so hard to read and 'old school' starting to run jumpers to the dash etc is just bad business.

Glad that I found drajj5 posts from a couple years ago that clued me in on the wiring on these things being seriously mucked up.

jaxs - in reply to your post.......
I have no comment, because you have no clue.

 

[mikesdad]

Soldered all the connections and re-taped them since I had the wiring harness apart and didn't want to have to do this again.
Pulled ALL connections apart and applied Di-electric grease.
Applied Silicone to the backs of the the cannon plugs where the wires enter.
Also noticed a pretty large gap where the hood meets the dashboard when I was putting things back together.
The gap is right above all the relays and glow plug controller and fuse box.
Might explain water in glow plug cannon connection.
Filled it with weather stripping.
Might work.
All back together and back in business.
Still have not received shop manual.

 

[mikesdad]

To add to the electrical issues just in case anyone should view this thread in the future....
As I said, the tractor is 2 years old and one day I climbed on and turned the key and NOTHING.
That turned out to be a blown 50 AMP fuse right by the battery.
It was blown because I have the backhoe attachment for my tractor and every time I turned the seat around to operate the backhoe, it further stretched the already too short wires on the safety switch under the seat until they broke and shorted out and thus, blew the fuse is question.
Obviously cutting corners on wiring is a known issue with Mahindra