Maybe a new GM small diesel pickup??????

[lostcause]

I still don't see any place for 1/2 ton diesels in the truck market here.

There will always be those that can actually use the extra power of the diesel and those that want it whether they need it or not, but I'm seeing the people on the fringe swapping back from diesel to gas more and more often now. Newer diesels aren't offering much better fuel consumption than gas, diesel prices are higher, gas engines are lasting longer and putting out more power with better economy than they used to, and the cost premium of a diesel and heavy transmission are making people think twice.

i think the 1/2 ton diesel is a pipe dream. 1/2 tons now have cargo and tow ratings than rival a 3/4 ton from two decades ago. that added capability also comes with a lot of added weight, and to haul that extra weight and keep the cargo and tow ratings they will still need some pretty decent power, which will keep the fuel economy down. i'm sure if you derated the weight and capabilities of the 1/2 ton to what it was in the 70's you could manage an economy tuned diesel 1/2 ton, but will that happen?

I think the only place to add a diesel is in what was always considered the 1/4 ton market, and more specifically the light suv market. vw, bmw, and porsche (and probably some others i am forgetting) are proving that it can work. i'm not intimately familiar with any of these, but i've heard that the porsche (vw engine) can pull 30-35 mpg, which i think is enough of an improvement over normal gas offerings to entice customers to pay the premium for the engine and the fuel. my gut says that there aren't enough 1/4 ton truck buyers alone to make the sales numbers high enough, but add in the people looking for a minivan replacement with 4wd and you could pull it off.

 

[94BULLITT]

Mazda is supposed to come out with a diesel CX7. It will be interesting to see how much more it is than the gas motor and how much more fuel efficient it is.

 

[salopez]

My liberty diesel got as much as 31 highway 25 combined. My gas version 19 mpg was the best i got ever

 

[94BULLITT]

My liberty diesel got as much as 31 highway 25 combined. My gas version 19 mpg was the best i got ever

How much more was it for the diesel engine option? I forgot about a diesel Liberty and Cherokee.

 

[Gary Fowler]

You compare two vehicles whose design age are three decades apart. With my 2.5TDI of 1998 i still smoke most family vehicles on the road today. With a ton of scrap on the trailer i keep up with moms in their compact grocery getters in city traffic.

The Toyota in Peru was most likely a naturally aspirated 2.2 putting out 63hp at 4200rpm. Mine is putting out 140hp and 300Nm (220 ft/lb) at 1900rpm, more than double the torque these 1980's IDI toyotas had at 2400rpm...
Actually the TDI engine in my volvo is built by Volkswagen and offered in the Transporter commercial van, and later versions are used in the VW version of the Dodge Sprinter at 163hp.

Carroll Shelby said: Torque wins races on sunday, but horsepower sells cars on monday.

Might have been generations apart in design but were same year model (2007) in manufacturer. This is my point in differences in USA and European design. Even when we get a choice of diesel and gas in vehicles, we still dont get the mileage of the European designed engines. Might be different EPA regs but European Fords arent the same in engine and suspension as USA Fords. Same applies to all other makes also.
Aside from that, Americans want performance even from their small vehicles. I doubt anyone would put up with a sluggish diesel in a car or truck in USA. By the way mileage on that little small diesel was about 30 MPG which is about what a good gas engine 4 cylinder would get but have double the power.
By the way top speed at sea level on the little Toyota pickup was 78 MPH wound out for 10 miles or more with a tailwind.

 

[salopez]

To be truthful i am not sure. I think 1800 to 3000. But. Diesel was cheaper than gas at that time and double the fuel economy we were happy.

 

[Gary Fowler]

The new Obama/ EPA CAFE requirements for trucks sold in the US in 2016 need to average 28.8 mpg. By 2025 they will need to get to 54.5 mpg. At first mfgs liked the idea but as they realize that to get there the cost of new vehicles will double. Sales projections are in the toilet unless they can find a way to sell the majority of the public on under powered trucks..

I could see them getting an average of 28.8 in their fleet which is what the average means, add all models together and overall average might get there. Possibly this is the reason SUV's are classified as trucks also so they can be included in the fleet average. My 2007 Chevy 4WD crew cab will average over 20MPG in winter (no AC running) on highway so I could see easily that GM could boost that up a bit. They just need consumers to buy into some smaller engine models with super high mileage to meet the 28.8 goal. My take is that the Big 3 havent done a lot in 15 years to boost the mileage. I bought the wife a 98 Oldsmobile in 1992 with a strong V6 engine that averaged 32 MPG per tank (computed mileage against fillup gallons) Next car was a 2002 Malibu and it got worse mileage than the OLDS with the same size V6. She drives a 2003 Olds Bravada with straight 6 cylinder with 19 MPG. Looks like GM was going the wrong way for those 11 years. My full sized truck gets better mileage than the SUV but not by much.

 

[Diamondpilot]

Might have been generations apart in design but were same year model (2007) in manufacturer. This is my point in differences in USA and European design. Even when we get a choice of diesel and gas in vehicles, we still dont get the mileage of the European designed engines. Might be different EPA regs but European Fords arent the same in engine and suspension as USA Fords. Same applies to all other makes also.
Aside from that, Americans want performance even from their small vehicles. I doubt anyone would put up with a sluggish diesel in a car or truck in USA. By the way mileage on that little small diesel was about 30 MPG which is about what a good gas engine 4 cylinder would get but have double the power.
By the way top speed at sea level on the little Toyota pickup was 78 MPH wound out for 10 miles or more with a tailwind.

One thing you need to remember is a imperial gallon of fuel is about 20% more than a US. So if a guy in Spain is getting 50mpg thats about 40mpg here.

Chris

 

[94BULLITT]

To be truthful i am not sure. I think 1800 to 3000. But. Diesel was cheaper than gas at that time and double the fuel economy we were happy.

Sounds like it was worth the extra money.

 

[crazyal]

I could see them getting an average of 28.8 in their fleet which is what the average means, add all models together and overall average might get there. Possibly this is the reason SUV's are classified as trucks also so they can be included in the fleet average. My 2007 Chevy 4WD crew cab will average over 20MPG in winter (no AC running) on highway so I could see easily that GM could boost that up a bit. They just need consumers to buy into some smaller engine models with super high mileage to meet the 28.8 goal. My take is that the Big 3 havent done a lot in 15 years to boost the mileage. I bought the wife a 98 Oldsmobile in 1992 with a strong V6 engine that averaged 32 MPG per tank (computed mileage against fillup gallons) Next car was a 2002 Malibu and it got worse mileage than the OLDS with the same size V6. She drives a 2003 Olds Bravada with straight 6 cylinder with 19 MPG. Looks like GM was going the wrong way for those 11 years. My full sized truck gets better mileage than the SUV but not by much.

What you have to remember is that a company like Ford is going to get hit much harder than Toyota. Ford sells a lot of full sized trucks that will drag down the average. On top of that they have been saddled with ever increasing emission standards and safety features that are offsetting gains fuel mileage.