MF 20 Industrial - Items to Replace when Splitting?

[ScipioUSA]

Not sure if anyone saw my other post in the Parts/Repairs section, but its looking like I need to split my MF 20 Industrial. I have never split this tractor before, and its sure gonna be a real peach trying to do it with the loader on there still.

Anyway, my machine has the 3 cylinder Perkins gas, and I am mostly wondering what anyone could suggest that I replace while I have it apart. I think my input shaft seals are leaking, so that means I have to split it twice, once for engine/transmission, and then transmission/rear end. It has the six speed shuttle transmission, so to pull the input shaft, I have to pull the front PTO shaft out the back of the transmission. Such fun.

Any thoughts on bits and pieces or things that I should make sure to investigate and replace "while I am in there"? I am not 100% that I am going to do this work myself yet, and know some of this will have to wait until I can put eyes on it.

Would appreciate any thoughts in the meantime on what would be good to have on hand or price out ahead of time.

Thanks!

 

[azbinder]

Rear engine seal. Freeze plugs in rear of engine if any. Pilot and T/O brg, clutch disk and possibly pressure plate. Just what came to mind.

 

[ScipioUSA]

Rear engine seal. Freeze plugs in rear of engine if any. Pilot and T/O brg, clutch disk and possibly pressure plate. Just what came to mind.

Thanks for the quick response!

I was planning on a full clutch kit at this point, so both discs, TO bearing and Pilot, not sure about pressure plate yet. I think someone has replaced the clutch once before, so it may not be too bad off, will need to see.

I had thought about the rear main, and potentially the oil pan seal (I guess sometimes the rear main stays dry, but the pan seal is what causes a problem?) From some videos and reading, the rope seals apparently can be really a big pain, and I havent ever done one. If its dry when I see it, I would probably leave it, but will have to decide what sort of a pain level I want to endure.

I had not thought about freeze plugs.

My three point likes to sink down pretty fast with a load on it when I push in the clutch, so maybe I should investigate that some too. Not sure if the pump can come out the top of my tractor or if it needs to come out the front....

 

[TractorTech]

Prepare to surface the flywheel and inspect the starter ring gear for possible replacement

 

[redman135]

When putting tractor back togather, engage pto and rotate with a spanner to help line up the clutch splines. Note this works with a dry clutch, 8 sp, but I don't know about a shuttle.

 

[ScipioUSA]

Prepare to surface the flywheel and inspect the starter ring gear for possible replacement

Any tips on surfacing at home? Can I just hit it with an angle grinder or palm sander? Or will that depend on the condition when I open it up?

When putting tractor back together, engage pto and rotate with a spanner to help line up the clutch splines. Note this works with a dry clutch, 8 sp, but I don't know about a shuttle.

My machine seems to be set up the same as the 8 speed, but with no reverse in the H pattern. So it's still all gears, and I should be able to use the PTO to assist with getting it together.

Right now I'm looking into options for splitting stands and jacks. I'm going to need a couple jack stands for the loader frame, and thinking I could make a few stands from some c-channel, but need to see where it would mount.

 

[TractorTech]

If the flywheel is lightly worn, then light sanding would work. If there are grooves or bluing, a machine shop is necessary.
Do not try with an angle grinder as the plane of the surface must be maintained for maximum clutch engagement.

 

[TractorTech]

As far as splitting, raise the loader up, put an angle iron (1/4"×2"×2") brace on the lift cylinders to brace. Use jacksrtands or blocks under the loader frame to brace. Cut a piece of 2x4 into 2 wedges. Hammer the wedges between the top of the front axle and bolster to keep the engine from flopping over when detached from the transmission. A bottle jack under the bell housing and a good floor jack under the engine makes splitting easy.

When going back together, 2 guide studs about 3-4" long made from cutting the heads off of bolts threaded into the bell housing will aid in aligning the halves back together. A large screwdriver turning the flywheel by putting it into the ring gear allows you to push and turn the engine over to engage the input shaft into the clutch.

 

[ScipioUSA]

As far as splitting, raise the loader up, put an angle iron (1/4"×2"×2") brace on the lift cylinders to brace. Use jacksrtands or blocks under the loader frame to brace. Cut a piece of 2x4 into 2 wedges. Hammer the wedges between the top of the front axle and bolster to keep the engine from flopping over when detached from the transmission. A bottle jack under the bell housing and a good floor jack under the engine makes splitting easy.

When going back together, 2 guide studs about 3-4" long made from cutting the heads off of bolts threaded into the bell housing will aid in aligning the halves back together. A large screwdriver turning the flywheel by putting it into the ring gear allows you to push and turn the engine over to engage the input shaft into the clutch.

I don't have overhead space in my garage for me to be able to lift the loader arms like that. So I'll have to keep the engine in place and roll the back end. Or I can try this in my barn where I have the head height, but no power and a crusher run floor....

 

[Sportsman762]

What transmission do you have? There was a 8x2 (4 speed with 2 ranges) or a 6 speed manual reverse (3 speed with 2 ranges and a third lever for reverse).
Also have you investigated the parts manual?

https://parts.agcocorp.com/us/en/apbsearch?q=masseyferguson%2F651281%2Fl&c=00-00&name=MF%2020%20TRACTOR#

Remember there are 3+ Massey 20's. The Massey Harris 20, The Massey Ferguson 20 turf, and the Massey Ferguson 20 Industrial. The 20 Turf shares some parts with the Industrial but there are still a ton of differences. (I could kill massey for doing an industrial and turf version of their tractors from the 20 to the 20d and not letting folks know the difference.) The industrial will have a straight solid front axle and the turf will have a swept adjustable axle.

Once we definitively determine what you have we can offer better suggestions.

Turf is below

Industrial below.

 

[ScipioUSA]

What transmission do you have? There was a 8x2 (4 speed with 2 ranges) or a 6 speed manual reverse (3 speed with 2 ranges and a third lever for reverse).
Also have you investigated the parts manual?

https://parts.agcocorp.com/us/en/apbsearch?q=masseyferguson%2F651281%2Fl&c=00-00&name=MF%2020%20TRACTOR#

Remember there are 3+ Massey 20's. The Massey Harris 20, The Massey Ferguson 20 turf, and the Massey Ferguson 20 Industrial. The 20 Turf shares some parts with the Industrial but there are still a ton of differences. (I could kill massey for doing an industrial and turf version of their tractors from the 20 to the 20d and not letting folks know the difference.) The industrial will have a straight solid front axle and the turf will have a swept adjustable axle.

Once we definitively determine what you have we can offer better suggestions.

Turf is below
View attachment 828484View attachment 828488

Industrial below.
View attachment 828485View attachment 828489

Mine is the six speed shuttle. Three speeds, manual lever for forward and reverse up high on the dash.

I have checked out the parts manual, and am going to buy a hard copy from Agco to make it easier to see the diagrams away from my computer. Plus it's easier to see the notes and serial breaks and what not.

My version is definitely the industrial with the solid axle, but no ROPS.

 

[Sportsman762]

Good news is that you do not need to pull the main input shaft out of the rear. Here are the instructions for the 20C which is newer than yours but most of the
components are the same.

 

[Sportsman762]

I would replace the following on the transmission:
Pressure plate. In your post you mentioned PTO slipping. The pto disc wear caused the slipping indicating that it is nearing the end of its life, adjusting it is a last resort to avoid splitting.
180434M1 seal for input housing
192329M2 housing seal
192329M2 O ring for PTO
bearings if needed
Thrust washers if needed

Per the parts books:

Tractortech has a good suggestion on how the take it apart and line it up.
My only other suggestion is that engaging the PTO and turning the pto by hand lets you line up the pto splines whereas turning the flywheel turns the transmission and pto splines. I try to align the pto and transmission splines the same before I put it together so then I only have to turn the flywheel like Tractortech suggests and never touch they pto shaft.
Sorry for back to back posts but I wanted to make sure I could get all the images up before I wrote more.

 

[ScipioUSA]

Thank you so much for the detailed posting and part numbers. This is really helpful stuff for me to dig into.
Here comes my confusion. I have the service manual for the 20, and these are the instructions I'm looking at that made me think I had to do a double split... Sorry they break across two pages like that, but was the easiest way for me to post them.

I know those are written like a full teardown, but it looks to me like the PTO front shaft has to go out the back to allow the gear that is meshed with the input shaft in the housing to drop down. If I didn't have to split again, that would be huge.....

 

[ScipioUSA]

I would replace the following on the transmission:
Pressure plate. In your post you mentioned PTO slipping. The pto disc wear caused the slipping indicating that it is nearing the end of its life, adjusting it is a last resort to avoid splitting.
180434M1 seal for input housing
192329M2 housing seal
192329M2 O ring for PTO
bearings if needed
Thrust washers if needed

I think that my PTO is slipping due to an oil soaked clutch disc, based on how grimy it looks inside the housing when I took off the inspection plate.

Havent ever done anything that involves the thrust washers, so will be a new one on me.

I am going to start making a list of the various bits and pieces that Ill need (tools and replacement parts), and am going to do a comparison between doing it myself and getting a couple quotes to have it done. I like the idea of a challenge like this, but also want to have a little justification on the cost side...

But Im sure there will be other things to fix while Im taking it apart, like my hour meter that doesnt work, and the throttle lever that wont stay in position, and the fuel line that probably needs a new filter, and all of those sorta things....

 

[Sportsman762]

But Im sure there will be other things to fix while Im taking it apart, like my hour meter that doesnt work, and the throttle lever that wont stay in position, and the fuel line that probably needs a new filter, and all of those sorta things....

If the tachometer is not working make sure to fix that when it is split. On the 20C diesel getting the tachometer cable off is a real SOB with the engine on. You have to pull the engine to take the tach drive off.

For the throttle you might need a new friction disc 180713M2.

 

[ScipioUSA]

If the tachometer is not working make sure to fix that when it is split. On the 20C diesel getting the tachometer cable off is a real SOB with the engine on. You have to pull the engine to take the tach drive off.

For the throttle you might need a new friction disc 180713M2.

Thank you for the tips! I haven't looked into what it takes for the disc, but might as well get to it if things are all pulled apart.....

 

[Dman1981]

Pretty sure you don’t have to pull trans to do front input shaft seals
And if you have pto rear hydraulic pump will come out top after top cover removal
Also before pulling pump check standpipe orings and relief valve notorious weak spots
Piston seals on top cover can be bad also
I worked on them when they were new they did not change much for thirty years adjusting top cover will hardest thing you do

 

[ScipioUSA]

Pretty sure you don’t have to pull trans to do front input shaft seals
And if you have pto rear hydraulic pump will come out top after top cover removal
Also before pulling pump check standpipe orings and relief valve notorious weak spots
Piston seals on top cover can be bad also
I worked on them when they were new they did not change much for thirty years adjusting top cover will hardest thing you do

Thanks for the input!

I just cannot find anything written up anywhere about the shuttle transmission, so not sure how different it is from the normal six speed.

I need to try and pull the side covers on the rear end anyway to see what filter I have on the pump, and was thinking I would try to check the relief valve and o-rings then.

Will be back for more thoughts/help Im sure once I decide to crack into it.

 

[Dman1981]

You can pull plug by standpipe cover if have a pressure gauge
Is pipe thread. Pressure was 2500
Psi if you pull right side cover will be able to see if it blowing off or half broken off can change it thru cover also
Depending on cover might have to pull rolling pin out of control valve
On pump to pull cover
Also right side cover has a slow fast lever on it that helps you control down speed have to make sure it sits back in same spot

Splitting out her w back is harder if it has a loader have to take bolts out that mount it to axles
I used a three inch pole to hold loader up usually had a wheel welded to it or good sized disc plate
Off to side and cherry picker to hold battery and gauges battery is gone so you can unbolt things
Used to do clutches on those in a couple hours but had all tools and parts right there are pretty easy
Just let me know